Why do the good cartoons die young!!

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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby MomentOfInertia » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:55 pm

Crossfire wrote:Not that it died "young", but a show that comes to mind is Transformers Animated. They had some really cool stuff planned for Season 4... but at least it ended on a high note with many excellent episodes.


Aye, that one had a good run while it lasted.

Secret Saturdays was good. I miss that one. At the end they were shuffling it around the schedule so much I never got to see the end of what actually got aired.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Jonathan » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:51 am

I think "SaTaM" and "Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog" imho both ended way too early.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby radical edward » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:42 am

It's Firefly all over again. The execs think all we want is stupidity. No! We want good, well-written cartoons that are every bit as good as the live-action! Young Justice and Thundercats are victims of what I call "Firefly Syndrome".
Don't know about Firefly? Watch it on Netflix.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Nate » Sun May 04, 2014 10:09 pm

radical edward wrote:Young Justice and Thundercats are victims of what I call "Firefly Syndrome".


So Firefly was canceled because too many girls were watching it?

Sounds legit.

Don't know about Firefly? Watch it on Netflix.


Better yet, don't, and watch Star Trek instead.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby yukoxholic » Mon May 05, 2014 9:19 am

Not technically cancelled but the last 5-10 episodes were not aired in the US but As Told By Ginger. ^_^ I loved that show. Also, I agree with Nate on Young Justice. Paul Dini is a big (can't say it here). He just goes to show that for a certain majority of men nothing has changed in their eyes as to where the 'females' stand. We can't be superheroes or strong or valiant. We can only cook and clean and have kids. Thanks Dini for setting the record straight. (bleck) :/
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Xeno » Mon May 05, 2014 9:38 am

Nate wrote:So Firefly was canceled because too many girls were watching it?

No, firefly was canceled because it was bad.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby nillapoet » Mon May 05, 2014 10:20 am

Xeno wrote:
Nate wrote:So Firefly was canceled because too many girls were watching it?

No, firefly was canceled because it was bad.


I didn't really get the hype surrounding it. I watched 4 or 5 episodes and thought it was kind of boring. Jericho, on the other hand, I thought was great and should have been finished.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby radical edward » Wed May 07, 2014 11:26 am

We'll have to agree to disagree nillapoet. But we all know the real culprit: evil executives who wouldn't know a good show if it bit them on the butt.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Davidizer13 » Wed May 07, 2014 11:56 am

Blame the execs all you want, they probably made the better business decision for the long run - one of the bigger reasons for Firefly's demise was the fact that they were mucking around with its time slot, because baseball playoffs were going on around the same time Firefly was premiering for the fall season, and Fox was contractually obligated to air most of the games in prime time, AKA, where Firefly would have normally been. This issue was made even worse by the fact that these series took up several nights of airtime in a row, ran long into the night and ate up whatever prime time there was on the east coast every night, and in the case of the World Series, took seven games to decide. And on average, each game of the World Series brought in around 15 million viewers. Firefly was only getting around 4 million.

But what if the executives did say, screw baseball, we're gonna keep airing this pretty good sci-fi show? Well, then they would have lost the $2.5 billion contract they had with the MLB for the next five years, all for some goofy space Western that already wasn't doing too great. (You may argue that this was already a self-fulfilling prophecy, the way things had been set up, but I am more of the opinion that Fox didn't really know quite what to do with the show. Such is the nature of things that break the mold.) So, if I was the programming exec at Fox at the time, as much as I like Firefly, I would have gone with the baseball. Buuuuuuut I might have moved Firefly to the May season, where it might have had a chance.

And at least you got the movie and a very loud, visible cult following. Pushing Daisies, on the other hand, got completely shafted by the writers' strike and all I got was a "they lived happily ever after," which is better than nothing, but still...
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby radical edward » Wed May 07, 2014 12:16 pm

Believe it or not, Davidizer, I am resolved over Firefly. I was only using it as an example.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Nate » Thu May 08, 2014 4:08 am

nillapoet wrote:I didn't really get the hype surrounding it. I watched 4 or 5 episodes and thought it was kind of boring.


Episode one- a guy gets out of the army and now drives a space-boat, like a cargo boat. It's dirty.

An elderly black guy, as unattractive woman, another unattractive woman, and an attractive woman who wears a kimono but isn't asian, pay to ride the space bus.

Captain guy is really bored and low energy, they drive the boat, somehow everyone is best friends all the sudden, the ugliest woman eats a strawberry all weirdly.

They didn't pay their space-tax, or something, and the attractive woman is a prostitute. Her magic power is "being somewhat attractive."

They drive around space. Because.

The space cops want their space tax so cap'n boredom is careful not to get pulled over.

None of the homeless passengers get off the boat or go anywhere because they are all best friends now, in space.

Look out the space cops!

That sure was a close one he says boringly

"have we paid our space, cargo, fee whatever?" "no" "oh well don't get pulled over ps I look bored"

*fat girl eats a strawberry*

*fat girl has a wooden cigar box of strawberries, in space, because,*

Attractive woman- "I'm a space prostitute" *puts chopsticks in her white girl hair, makes vaguely mysterious face*

"you sure are old, black guy haha lets be best friends, on the space boat, because,"
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Hikaru » Thu May 08, 2014 11:27 am

What I find odd is that young justice gets cancelled because lots of girls are watching it but my little pony keeps going even though lots of guys watch it.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby nillapoet » Thu May 08, 2014 12:22 pm

Hikaru wrote:What I find odd is that young justice gets cancelled because lots of girls are watching it but my little pony keeps going even though lots of guys watch it.


Because the goal is to feminize the boys.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Crossfire » Thu May 08, 2014 1:02 pm

nillapoet wrote:
Xeno wrote:No, firefly was canceled because it was bad.

I didn't really get the hype surrounding it. I watched 4 or 5 episodes and thought it was kind of boring. Jericho, on the other hand, I thought was great and should have been finished.

Yeah, I caved in and watched the show after all the hype... and was left severely disappointed. I don't understand why this show was considered so groundbreaking.


Nate wrote:Better yet, don't, and watch Star Trek instead.

I prefer Stargate SG-1 myself.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Davidizer13 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:33 pm

Hikaru wrote:What I find odd is that young justice gets cancelled because lots of girls are watching it but my little pony keeps going even though lots of guys watch it.

The difference is in the demographics they ended up getting, and maybe some over-reliance on conventional wisdom.

MLP was originally targeted towards girls, probably around 4-10 years old, but through the magic of the Internet, ended up also getting a fanbase of nerdy, 20-something men. That second group tends to have jobs, and therefore more money at their disposal to buy the show's merchandise. And luckily, the people who ended up falling into that group also tend to be otaku types, who are perfectly fine spending that money on the merchandise usually intended for the first group because they've been doing it for years with their favorite anime. The show makes its company more money, they keep making more episodes, everyone's happy.

Meanwhile, Young Justice (and Tower Prep as well, I assume) was targeted towards 8-12 year old boys, but ended up getting a good fanbase of girls who were a little older than that. Conventional wisdom says that the first will buy the action figures they're putting out for the show, and that the girls aren't as interested in buying toys, and express their fandom through other means, like fanfic. The problem that Nate was getting at is that, according to the show's creators, Cartoon Network chose to believe the conventional wisdom and didn't stick around with the show long enough for that fanbase to prove them wrong.

radical edward wrote:Believe it or not, Davidizer, I am resolved over Firefly. I was only using it as an example.

My point still stands, though, ~90% of all networks on TV* are businesses in and of themselves, and they will do whatever will bring in the most money through ad revenue. The best way to do that is through quality programming, but if a show is bringing in eyeballs and ad dollars, it doesn't matter what you or I might think of it, they're going to keep showing it. And it doesn't matter how good a show might be, if it's not making money, it's not going to stay on the air. For example, anime used to be profitable in the '90s for CN and the like, then licensing got more expensive, and now it's not. Right now, dramatic cartoons aren't doing as well for whatever reason, so you're less likely to see them stick around unless there's some sort of brand backing it up and drawing people in, which was how The Clone Wars lasted so much longer than all the other dramas that have come and gone.

Even so, Cartoon Network's taken some really daring risks in terms of style and what they've been putting on their channel, probably more than any other time in its history. Nobody a few years ago would have thought that the Internet would have been a place where they would have gone for new shows, and based on his old shorts, I wouldn't have picked J. G. Quintel to be making kids' shows, but here we are now, with Adventure Time and Regular Show as the staples of Cartoon Network, still going strong in the ratings and critically. Regardless of how these experiments have turned out, I have to at least give them props for trying new things and taking big risks.

* - There's a couple networks that aren't based on the traditional TV model of selling ad space for money - PBS is the most obvious, channels like the Disney Channel or NFL Network run off of their parent company's money and serve to build its brand; HBO and the like make their money through premium subscription fees. They still have to show things that people want to watch to survive, but things are just slightly different for them monetarily.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby radical edward » Fri May 09, 2014 5:39 am

I'm not sure I'd call Annoying Orange daring. Wouldn't it be better to enrich children's minds than poison them with that garbage? Why aren't there more shows like Legend of Korra, Friendship is Magic, or from what I've heard, Gravity Falls?
Because people think it's better to make kids stupid, so they grow into stupid adults and keep the status quo and bring our country further and further down the gutter instead of making it better.
And no, I'm not retracting that last statement.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Xeno » Fri May 09, 2014 6:57 am

Because not everyone wants to watch what you do or sees the same value in the shows you like. You might hate that Agent Orange show (and really, who doesn't hate some Agent Orange?), but just because you don't like doesn't make it garbage. I think MLP is literally one of the dumbest things I've ever seen and I cannot begin to understand how grown adult men can unironically bring themselves to watch it; but it doesn't mean the show is bad, it means the show is made for little kids and has an obscure following of adults.

Your little mini rant about tv programming dumbing down children is pretty hilarious. Because kids would be so much more intelligent if they only watched the most premium selection of animes, and non-educational but just hug-it-out or totally cool and awesome cartoons you like. Get off it. Kids are, on average, no more ignorant than their parents were when they were their kid's age. The deficiencies you're probably seeing are due to massive socioeconomic problems that are much too large for this thread. They certainly have nothing to do with the cartoons they're watching.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Davidizer13 » Fri May 09, 2014 1:03 pm

And, as a poke through the list of shows CN has had on it will show, it's not like every show they've had on ever has been pure gold, anyway. You're letting the nostalgia you have for its best shows cloud your sight for the ones that weren't as good - just like anything else in life, people save the memories of the things that they like and discard the ones of things they didn't.

As for the rant about kids getting dumbed down, I've got a quote for everyone; go ahead and hazard a guess about when someone wrote it:

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. ...[they] have no self control."

If you guessed that this is an inscription from an ancient Egyptian tomb, you get the cookie for the day. What you're trying to get at is an attitude that's been around as long as we've had kids, and is going to be around until the end of time. Besides, Rocky, aren't you a little young to be in "you kids get off my lawn" mode? Or is this just your attempt to deal with the fact that CN couldn't give a care about what you like because you've aged out of their target demographic?

Xeno wrote:and really, who doesn't hate some Agent Orange?

I, too, hate carcinogenic herbicides.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby MomentOfInertia » Fri May 09, 2014 1:44 pm

radical edward wrote:Because people think it's better to make kids stupid, so they grow into stupid adults and keep the status quo and bring our country further and further down the gutter instead of making it better.
And no, I'm not retracting that last statement.


I vote Hanlon's Razor.

Also Gravity Falls is pretty decent stuff, or it was last time I got a chance to watch it.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Nate » Fri May 09, 2014 1:59 pm

radical edward wrote:Why aren't there more shows like Legend of Korra

I too wonder why there aren't more completely terrible sequels that have no reason to exist except as a desperate cash grab.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Davidizer13 » Fri May 09, 2014 2:14 pm

Nate wrote:I too wonder why there aren't more completely terrible sequels that have no reason to exist except as a desperate cash grab.

Something tells me you don't watch many movies.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Xeno » Fri May 09, 2014 5:33 pm

The Departed 2

No Country for Old Men: No Planet for Middle-Aged Women

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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby LastLfan » Fri May 09, 2014 7:47 pm

Okay xeno that last one crossed the line...we're already getting a cars 3 no need to give pixar any ideas here. To bring this whole thing back on topic, beware the batman, from what I saw not a bad show but seems like it is all but cancelled if not already and will now air all 26 episodes on toonami
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby radical edward » Sat May 10, 2014 5:23 am

Xeno, you're too cynical to like My Little Pony.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Xeno » Sat May 10, 2014 6:13 am

I prefer to think of it as not appropriating children's cartoons and treating them like they were intentionally designed for men in their 20s and 30s with neckbeards and a collection of fedoras, but I guess cynical works too.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Roy Mustang » Mon May 12, 2014 10:27 am

I have no problem with adults watching MLP, but I can see it more, if you are sitting down and watching with your kids more, but that's just me.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Nate » Mon May 12, 2014 6:24 pm

radical edward wrote:Xeno, you're too cynical to like My Little Pony.


This is like when I would say Evangelion sucks and people would just go "LOL 2DEEP4U"
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Xeno » Mon May 12, 2014 7:23 pm

Nate wrote:This is like when I would say Evangelion sucks and people would just go "LOL 2DEEP4U"

Congratulations Nate.
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby LastLfan » Mon May 12, 2014 7:55 pm

As creator of this thread I have to steer this back on course before this thread gets locked. This thread is about shows that were cancelled so we can talk about how cool they were. Can we please show the mods that we can discuss a topic like this without letting our fanboy egos causing a riot. Is mlp:fim cancelled? No, then it doesn't belong in this thread. They're plenty of other threads for you to debate the legitimacy of the brony. Unless you are referring to the old mlp shows or talking about making a crossover ala turtles forever, no mlp talk, nothing against it its just not cancelled. Now then, back to the topic, i know i mentioned this earlier but kappa mikey, this show is completely underrated and truly has a great culture shock style premise
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Re: Why do the good cartoons die young!!

Postby Roy Mustang » Wed May 14, 2014 6:55 am

There is talk that Young Justice may come back. That is a big may, but DC has really taken some heat for ending this show and other shows that they put out has will not that great.
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