Are You a Good Person?

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Are You a Good Person?

Postby Cc4FuzzyHuggles » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:46 pm

Check out this interesting quiz!
But NOTE : I STRONGLY advise you finish the quiz, as there is a HUGE twist towards the end! :)
http://www.areyouagoodperson.org/
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Xeno » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:48 pm

Guess I'm not a good person.

Either way, the quiz isn't a judgment of whether a person is good or not, all it does is show that everyone breaks the ten commandments and then compels them to surrender to Christ. Hardly a judgement of character.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Nate » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:52 pm

There's a difference between being a good person in the eyes of God and in the eyes of society. For example, Jesus says if you hate your brother, you're guilty of murder, but if I hate somebody the cops can't come to my house and arrest me, because I've done nothing wrong; I'm not a murderer in the eyes of society.

Of course in my case the answer is no either way, but still...important distinction to make.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Atria35 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:00 pm

This sort of thinking, taken to the extreme (as this person seems to be advocating) also leads to works-based salvation only instead of faith, which presents issues since there are numerous passages where it says faith is also a necessary component.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Zarn Ishtare » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:28 pm

No.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Lynna » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:21 pm

Meh. I've heard this all before. In the sight of God, no, no one is a good person. I get it. And while I think methods such as these are fine in some conversations, they're kind of worthless on the internet, especially to people who have heard this many, many times. Plus, I don't like how it brings in the hell scare tactic. I don't believe scare tactics should ever be used when witnessing. They can be very damaging to the person's faith later on, especially, as Atria said, when it also appears to promote good works ("If you're sinned, God is angry") and then the fact at the end when they say "If you've decided to reject this, read this description of Hell". Wow, way to harden someone's heart against ever becoming a Christian.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby SierraLea » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:43 pm

This sounded really nasty to me. I'ts good as a reflection on your life, but it depicts God as a lot harsher than he actually is, at least in Catholic Doctrine and scripture. How many times did the Hebrews sin, and how many times did he save them?
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Atria35 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:23 pm

The site it's from is also hilarious. That 'Letter From An Aetheist' is pretty obviously made up by whomever's working on promoting this thing. I don't know any aetheist that would goad someone to evangelism. That's what that whole last paragraph is about - it's saying the 'aetheist' *WANTS* this dude to go out and save souls. Really and truly, that is a sure sign that one of the people working on this site made it up.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:44 pm

I've never sinned. So obviously I don't need salvation in my life.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Davidizer13 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:00 pm

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:I've never sinned.

I've never sinned - I've got a friend in Jesus.

Seriously, though, Way of the Master isn't that great of an evangelism tool (but you could say with some certainty that Ray Comfort, the guy who made it, is indeed a great tool); you can short-circuit its main argument by saying that you don't believe in the authority of the god that created the Ten Commandments in the first place, leaving the Christian in the argument in a position of having to prove the existence of God, which almost never ends well for either side. Trust me, I've tried.

Building a relationship with someone (a legitimate friendship, not one you created just for evangelism), combined with prayerfully expressing your ideas in a clear, reasonable manner without a direct obligation to accept them, while truly allowing the other person to do the same, will be a thousand times more effective than anything Banana Man's come up with.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Nate » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:10 pm

Lynna wrote:at the end when they say "If you've decided to reject this, read this description of Hell".

I've never understood this line of thinking, that if you describe Hell to an atheist/non-Christian that they'll suddenly go "Wow, that sounds awful! I should definitely convert right now!" Their response is pretty much going to be that Hell doesn't exist or that its existence just proves God is a huge jerk who doesn't deserve to be worshiped. And then of course there's the counter of "Well let me explain to you how horrible jahannam is, doesn't it sound horrible, better convert to Islam right away so you can avoid it!"
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:28 pm

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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby DarkNozomi » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:41 pm

Quit after the first 20 seconds. The ten commandments has nothing to do with being a good person, and neither of them will get you into Heaven.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:47 pm

I love how even if I clicked "Innocent" for every question, it still assumes that I've broken the commandments because Romans 3:23 says so (All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God etc etc etc).
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby uc pseudonym » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:48 am

I was going to say that the target audience for this is entirely Christians who want to make themselves feel like good people, but it turns out the target audience is "people willing to listen to a guy read words on a screen really slowly."
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Xeno » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:53 am

Atria35 wrote:This sort of thinking, taken to the extreme (as this person seems to be advocating) also leads to works-based salvation only instead of faith, which presents issues since there are numerous passages where it says faith is also a necessary component.

I can't stress this enough. I spent 13 years in a denomination that used this kind of thinking (not Way of the Master, but the fear of going to hell because you broke some minuscule law or commandment) to keep people in line. It's not health, it's not edifying, and it is not based what Jesus taught. As far as the Way of the Master in general, it's quite laughable in its attempts to prove things and failing miserably to do so. Davidizer mentioned the banana as proof of Intelligent Design, which is an massive logical fallacy. Atria brought up the "letter from an atheist" trying to encourage believers to evangelize; well trust me, we atheists are not going to encourage evangelizing. We might stand by while you do so, we may recognize your right to to do it, but we're not going to actively encourage you to go out and spread the word about your religion of choice. Thats just not something that we do.

As Nate said, describing hell to an atheist or non-Christian will not scare us into becoming Christian. To the atheist it makes us either feel upset that a supposedly loving God would allow such a place to exist and be willing to send people there. It makes us reject the willingness to accept living in a universe ruled by such a god. And since we already don't believe in a higher being, it doesn't compel us to find faith because we don't see hell as being a thing that could possibly exist anyway. The person of another faith won't be swayed because they already have their current faith teachings and beliefs. Why would hearing about the Christian hell scare them into becoming a Christian versus being afraid of whatever eternal punishment their existing religion has in store for them?

Highly ineffective evangelism tools.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Yuki-Anne » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:18 am

Nate wrote:
Lynna wrote:at the end when they say "If you've decided to reject this, read this description of Hell".

I've never understood this line of thinking, that if you describe Hell to an atheist/non-Christian that they'll suddenly go "Wow, that sounds awful! I should definitely convert right now!" Their response is pretty much going to be that Hell doesn't exist or that its existence just proves God is a huge jerk who doesn't deserve to be worshiped. And then of course there's the counter of "Well let me explain to you how horrible jahannam is, doesn't it sound horrible, better convert to Islam right away so you can avoid it!"


Yeah, nothing makes me want to wear a hijab more than my Muslim friend who posts pictures of women not wearing hijabs burning in hell.

^that really happened

PS How is it a "twist" if it's basically propounding the same philosophy we all profess to believe, being members of "Christian Anime Alliance"? Like any of us are supposed to be surprised that we're not good people.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Ally-Ann » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:37 am

Yuki-Anne wrote:
PS How is it a "twist" if it's basically propounding the same philosophy we all profess to believe, being members of "Christian Anime Alliance"? Like any of us are supposed to be surprised that we're not good people.



This. I waited for the twist at the end, and once the end came, I was all, ". . . What?"


Do some Christians really believe that scaring others with the warnings of Hell and angering God will really make them want to become a Christian? Wow, really, Christians, really? I have never known a single atheist/non-believer to get scared at the mention of angering God or getting sent to Hell, and I've known quite a few atheists, from teens to adults. This "quiz" is-- to be brutally honest-- ridiculous. Tactics like this don't really work and only make the rest of Christianity look like a bunch of extreme, nonsensical loons.

I'm sorry for the little rant, but this "quiz" just came across to me as redundant and offensive to what it truly means to be a Christian. I know I shouldn't get so offended, but trying to scare someone into becoming a Christian-- in my opinion-- is wrong. Not only do have to accept Jesus as your Saviour, but to be a true Christian, strong faith is required. Someone may get scared into becoming a "Christian", but because they were scared into it, will (probably) lack the faith needed to be in a spiritual relationship with Christ.

. . .


But atheists don't even believe in God, Heaven, or Hell, anyway so what is this quiz and rant, I don't even. . .
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Warrior4Christ » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:41 am

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:I love how even if I clicked "Innocent" for every question, it still assumes that I've broken the commandments because Romans 3:23 says so (All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God etc etc etc).

Lying is a sin too.

There seems to be a lot of judging of effectiveness of evangelism methods... I personally wouldn't judge them, because I don't know the full picture of how effective they are - I don't have the statistics. Am I more effective than the person/method I'm judging? I would tend towards no, and be convicted to ask God to help grow my heart for the lost. One person in know comes to mind, who was drinking with his friends and living a lifestyle rejecting God.. he was pondering his life and considering where he'd end up when he does, and he was quite uncomfortable with the conclusion that his current life would lead to hell. I think he then approached some Christian friends about hell/heaven/afterlife, and how do it best. He became a Christian and grew to love Jesus. I'm sure there's plenty of other stories. Jesus was the man who spoke about hell person than any other in the Bible. So I wouldn't necessarily limit the way God works to the ones I approve of. I've been surprised before by minor/unexpected things that triggered people's investigations of God.

Ally-Ann wrote:
Yuki-Anne wrote:Not only do have to accept Jesus as your Saviour, but to be a true Christian, strong faith is required. Someone may get scared into becoming a "Christian", but because they were scared into it, will (probably) lack the faith needed to be in a spiritual relationship with Christ.

Yes, John Piper writes about "receiving Jesus as your treasure", like the parable of the man who finds the treasure in a field, and goes to sell all his possessions in order to buy the field - as a demonstration of genuine faith.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Xeno » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:45 am

Warrior4Christ wrote:
Mr. SmartyPants wrote:I love how even if I clicked "Innocent" for every question, it still assumes that I've broken the commandments because Romans 3:23 says so (All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God etc etc etc).

Lying is a sin too.

He was attempting to see if there was an alternative route through the quiz by selecting different answers. It's a valid form of inquisitiveness. It's not lying, it's a testing method.

There seems to be a lot of judging of effectiveness of evangelism methods... I personally wouldn't judge them, because I don't know the full picture of how effective they are - I don't have the statistics. Am I more effective than the person/method I'm judging? I would tend towards no, and be convicted to ask God to help grow my heart for the lost. One person in know comes to mind, who was drinking with his friends and living a lifestyle rejecting God.. he was pondering his life and considering where he'd end up when he does, and he was quite uncomfortable with the conclusion that his current life would lead to hell. I think he then approached some Christian friends about hell/heaven/afterlife, and how do it best. He became a Christian and grew to love Jesus. I'm sure there's plenty of other stories. Jesus was the man who spoke about hell person than any other in the Bible. So I wouldn't necessarily limit the way God works to the ones I approve of. I've been surprised before by minor/unexpected things that triggered people's investigations of God.

Why do you specifically mention that this person was drinking? Consuming alcohol is not a sin. The Bible never condemns it, and in fact several times specifically speaks of various people drinking wine. Jesus himself made wine for his first miracle. So I'm confused about why this is specified like this. And it's a nice anecdotal story that you have to offer that through his own thinkings about the universe and life, he decided he was going to eternal torment when he dies because of what a 2000-ish year old book states, and subsequently altered his life to avoid such a fate; but that is not the same thing as you walking up to me, for example, and telling me that because I don't believe in God, or that Jesus died for my sins, that I'm going to suffer though eternal anguish once my body expires, and then having me about facing and becoming a devout Christian.

The difference between these two stories is the man in your anecdote came to this conclusion on his own, and then sought help from others on what to do to avoid the fate he believed he was headed towards. The other one, the one I put-forth and what the quiz attempts to do, and what a number of Christians try to do by threatening non-beleivers with hell, is to scare scare people into being Christians for their own good. When your faith is based on fear it is poison to your soul. It will eat at you and burn you from within. You may be able to override it, because the fear of "What if I fail? What if I end up going to hell? I have to keep this up so I can make it!" will be so strong, but there is also a good chance that the poison will also break you, and you'll recognize what has happened and what you've become.

And then your fear becomes hate.

There are evangelism methods that work, I'm sure. Otherwise Christianity wouldn't be so popular. Unfortunately, things like the Crusades are over, and murdering people because they aren't the same religion as you isn't acceptable anymore. So you have to find good and proper ways to convert non-believers to your faith, and then to also co-exist with people who don't believe the same as you. You have to recognize that people who think there is a different sky-man (or no sky-man at all) running the show can be, and in many cases are, just as "good" as any Christian you currently do or will ever know.

When I was still a Christian I had a rule for evangelism that I followed, and I thought it was pretty good because a lot of people I knew who were Christian, Pagan, atheist, Muslim, or whatever appreciated it:
"It's okay to let people know you're a Christian, but don't be overt about it, because it's just something you are. If people want to know about Christ then tell them, otherwise, don't bring it up because they don't want to hear about it. And always be open to learning about other people's religions and philosophies, because often times you find that they are not so different from yourself, and if you're willing to listen to them, they will be willing to listen to you."
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby blkmage » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:53 am

There sure is a lot of debate over the theology of this quiz.

I would love to get into a discussion about this, but, you know.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby QtheQreater » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:50 am

Apparently, I'm not a good enough person to make it through that quiz. Can't abide being forced to wait for someone to narrate words in a derpy flash animation... :drool:

Regardless of whether the method has merit or not, this mode of delivery is terrible.

Edit: Wanted to mention this...

Xeno wrote:Why do you specifically mention that this person was drinking? Consuming alcohol is not a sin. The Bible never condemns it, and in fact several times specifically speaks of various people drinking wine. Jesus himself made wine for his first miracle. So I'm confused about why this is specified like this.


I think he's just using the Christianese way of saying the fellow was living to drink, such as a lifestyle of being drunk and not in your right mind as a general rule, which I think is repeatedly condemned in the Bible. It's a typical phrase where I'm from and not really a condemnation of alcohol, if that helps.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:08 am

Warrior4Christ wrote:Lying is a sin too.

Aside from what Xeno already said, my point is that the quiz makes its own questions irrelevant because even if you're innocent of breaking the ten commandments (let's hypothetically assume such a person exists), you're still a bad person. So then why have the quiz in the beginning anyway? Using the ten commandments as a measure of one's goodness/badness becomes pointless.

I'd like to quote the author John Green again:

"'I am going to take this bucket of water and pour it on the flames of hell, and then I am going to use this torch to burn down the gates of paradise so that people will not love God for want of heaven or fear of hell, but because He is God.'

Personally I don't believe in Hell. Maybe I believe in Heaven. Maybe everyone will be in Heaven. But they're both irrelevant to me. My spirituality isn't teleological and based upon where I will be in the afterlife. We are to Love for the sake of Love itself. That's it. No reward; no consequence. Once we put reward/consequence into play we lose sight of the meaning of Christ.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Nate » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:41 am

Ally-Ann wrote:Do some Christians really believe that scaring others with the warnings of Hell and angering God will really make them want to become a Christian?

Yes, they do, believe it or not. There are Christians who honestly believe that people who haven't accepted Jesus just don't actually know about him. This is why you get Jack Chick and his tracts where the Christian tells the non-believer about Jesus and they respond "Jesus? Who's that?" and as soon as the person says "Jesus died for you so you won't go to Hell" the non-believer goes "Wow, no one ever told me about this, let me convert right now!"

It also has to do with a few more things, such as the fact that most Christians who think that the "scare atheists into being Christian" tactic works are more often than not raised in a religious family, where they went to church as children and had the "If you act bad then God will punish you" stuff drilled into them. To a child, being told you'll be eternally punished for misbehaving is a pretty effective (though reprehensible) method of instilling a belief into them. The problem is that adults are far, far less likely to be susceptible to this method of conversion, because their brains are more fully developed and they're able to argue against it more effectively.
QtheQreater wrote:I think he's just using the Christianese way of saying the fellow was living to drink, such as a lifestyle of being drunk and not in your right mind as a general rule, which I think is repeatedly condemned in the Bible. It's a typical phrase where I'm from and not really a condemnation of alcohol, if that helps.

You never know, honestly. There absolutely are Christian denominations who think that consumption of alcohol at all is a sin, so it's difficult to tell when someone condemns drinking as sinful if they mean drinking at all, or just getting drunk.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:48 am

Fun fact! There are eight Catholic monasteries (Read more here!) who besides from living their monastic lives of praying and fasting and helping, brew beer! Lots and lots of beer! Then they sell the beer and use all the money they make to support their monastic life, and then all the rest goes to charity/communities (And yes they drink their own beer too). Heck even St. Augustine of Hippo is considered the patron saint of brewing.

Wiki has an article about them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trappist_beer

And my god... it's some of the most delicious beer ever. EVER. I'd kill to get a bottle of Westvleteren 12 one day... It's basically the holy grail of beers.

I'm a huge beer snob.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby DaughterOfZion » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:56 am

As I see it WotM is really only going to work on someone who is undecided belief wise, that think maybe the bible is right. (And I don't mean agnostics) Even then as others have said, if this persuades them it's for all the wrong reasons.

It's a tipping point type thing, if your sitting on a fence it's either going to push you to the christian side with "Holy crap I'm going to burn!" or push you to the side that thinks "This God guy sounds like a jerk."
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby TopazRaven » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:39 pm

Story time. Back in 2010 I took a quiz just like this. Heck, for all I know, it might even be the same one. I pretty much took one look at this thing and then back clicked. At that time I wouldn't exactly say I was an atheist, I believed in God. I just didn't read the bible or really think much about what it meant to sin. Needless to say, the quiz scared the crap out of me. I was a sheltered, naive person and took everything it said to heart. I cried myself to sleep for months because I had convinced myself that I and everyone I loved were going to hell to suffer for all eternity, that I could never follow all of these rules. If you remember me from my early days I used to make a lot of posts about theology, begging for advice or desperate prayer requests. You know what came of all this? I suppose I still consider myself a Christian now, but I honestly feel little to no connection with God anymore. Why? Because I came to him out of fear. Not respect and not love. So yes, I absolutely despise methods like this that try to evangelize people through fear. A faith based on fear will not last. Not to mention the emotional damage it might cause. Maybe I'm speaking from experience, my fear broke me. It just makes me cringe to think of anyone else going through that.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:38 pm

I don't like these quizzes either, they're not well-thought out or convincing.

Ryan, interesting. I can't fathom how a person can believe in Christ but not in sin, salvation and Heaven and Hell. Yes, God is Love but he's also Spirit and Truth. Truth informed by Love, but not our wishy-washy human ideal of love. He is a Holy God, one who can't abide sin. He has to punish humankind for their rebellion against him. It's not pleasant and I would have it any other way but that's what the Bible reveals. They're some of the most basic and important tenants of the Christian faith. Some beliefs are open for debate, but these tenants aren't.

An aside: Warrior4Christ is my younger bro, and I know he partakes in drinking in moderation, as do I. He wasn't condemning the act of drinking, so much as the act of getting drunk or living to drink.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:48 pm

This is because Christian theology is not limited to evangelical theology that most people are brought up with in the church. It's certainly the most prominent in the Western world but just because it's the most popular doesn't make it any more right.
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Re: Are You a Good Person?

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:14 pm

Hmm... Okay. I'm curious. Please point me to some websites that explain the Christian beliefs to which you prescribe.
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