Secular spirituality

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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Davidizer13 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:41 pm

SierraLea wrote:Do you guys ever listen to Christian Radio stations? There's a lot of music on those that, in my opinion, aren't generic and/or say the same thing as everything else. For example,
We As Human. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4aEpdpR ... 1377147917

Yeah, I've heard that argument before...when I made it about 20 posts up. (Thank God for Jon Foreman, Lecrae and mewithoutYou.)

And while we're on the topic, Bob Dylan. Exhibit A: Shelter from the Storm. Exhibit B: All Along the Watchtower (see also: Isaiah 21).
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby SierraLea » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:59 pm

Davidizer13 wrote:
SierraLea wrote:Do you guys ever listen to Christian Radio stations? There's a lot of music on those that, in my opinion, aren't generic and/or say the same thing as everything else. For example,
We As Human. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4aEpdpR ... 1377147917

Yeah, I've heard that argument before...when I made it about 20 posts up. (Thank God for Jon Foreman, Lecrae and mewithoutYou.)

And while we're on the topic, Bob Dylan. Exhibit A: Shelter from the Storm. Exhibit B: All Along the Watchtower (see also: Isaiah 21).

Good to know someone sees this too! I love mewithoutyou!
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Nate » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:11 pm

I've always found Istanbul (Not Constantinople) to be very deeply spiritual.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby John_Smith » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:47 pm

On that Titan song:
1 Peter 5:8: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

The giants are like the devil here. They seek humans to swallow them up. Christian morals have been pushed back, and they have encased themselves behind a wall for protection. But there is a yearning to do more that just sit on the other side of the wall. A yearning to reap the harvest. Prayers can’t do anything here because it’s about getting up and going to work, instead of just asking to be taken Home. In the anime, that means killing giants, killing disgusting creatures that eat mothers (Revelation 12, anyone?). In real life this means no longer being afraid to preach the gospel. The giants are our own inner demons and temptations. In my opinion, the only thing here missing is the reminder that in order to do this, we need God. The song's translated lyrics can be found here.


Now, on to the point of this thread:
I discovered this song one day randomly on youtube. I know nothing about Greg Laswell’s religious leanings. The song is probably about romance. But I don’t like that interpretation. To me, the song talks about trying to find a middle ground with other people, which is very difficult in a time and place where we seem encouraged to simplly cuss out anyone who dissagrees with us. He tries to give a part to everyone, and he relentlessly tries to help one friend in particular. Perhaps he’s preaching the gospel to her? But she doesn’t listen. He tries again, and again. Eventually it just seems hopeless. It seems like the world just continues on, ignoring everything that seems important to him. In the end, he decides that all he can do is keep trying. It might not be talking about God, but to me that’s a very spiritual concept, because once you get there, who else can you turn to?
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby SierraLea » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:21 pm

John_Smith wrote:On that Titan song:
1 Peter 5:8: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

The giants are like the devil here. They seek humans to swallow them up. Christian morals have been pushed back, and they have encased themselves behind a wall for protection. But there is a yearning to do more that just sit on the other side of the wall. A yearning to reap the harvest. Prayers can’t do anything here because it’s about getting up and going to work, instead of just asking to be taken Home. In the anime, that means killing giants, killing disgusting creatures that eat mothers (Revelation 12, anyone?). In real life this means no longer being afraid to preach the gospel. The giants are our own inner demons and temptations. In my opinion, the only thing here missing is the reminder that in order to do this, we need God. The song's translated lyrics can be found here.

I should have expected that you would be the one to see what I meant. Thank you.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Nate » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:16 pm

Godzilla is the greatest analogy for Christianity to ever be filmed.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby John_Smith » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:37 pm

SierraLea wrote:I should have expected that you would be the one to see what I meant. Thank you.


I'm not sure how you could have predicted I would, but you're welcome. :thumb:


Nate wrote:Godzilla is the greatest analogy for Christianity to ever be filmed.


Which one?

In any case, this is a film we're talking about. I know I kind of crossed the line with the Titan opening, but if you're going to discuss the spirituality in films, then perhaps you should post it in the What Movies Are You Watching? thread. Or instead make a thread just for the spirituality in films? I was thinking about making an anime one myself.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Xeno » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:35 pm

The one with Mothra I think has especially heavy parallels to the story of Jesus as told in the book of Mark.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Nate » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:22 pm

John_Smith wrote:Which one?

The first one of course. Godzilla is clearly a representation of Satan, and the "God" in his name is a reference to how Satan will sometimes disguise himself as an angel of light and pretend he is God. He destroys human society and condemns everyone to death until Daisuke Serizawa (clearly meant to represent Jesus) comes up with a plan to defeat Godzilla. However, he is betrayed by Emiko Yamane (who represents Judas) to Hideto Ogata (the Roman government) who attacks Serizawa.

In the end, Serizawa sacrifices himself to defeat Godzilla, much in the same way as Jesus sacrificed himself to defeat Satan.

Therefore Godzilla is clearly the best Christian movie ever made.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby John_Smith » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:18 pm

Unfortunately, I haven’t seen the original, only the modern one, and the one that had Mothra and whatever that pterodactyl monster was. I wonder if you can consider that an anti-trinity? However, Xeno, I think you meant the book of Hosea. I’m not sure how to got them confused though.
I heard once that the original Godzilla had some minor anti-American inspiration... However I like Nate’s take a little bit better. However, you forget that the Japanese name is Gojira, which doesn’t actually have anything to do with God. Now, if we consider Genesis 1:26: “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’” Now my interpretation of this verse has always been that humans have a responsibility to be caretakers of the earth. We are to use it, not misuse or abuse it. But as we rebelled against God, so the earth rebels against us. To me, Godzilla is a metaphor for sin’s actual affect on the earth. Not only has it turned into a monster, but it has done so by taking our devices (radiation) to strike against us. Again, what’s missing here is the reminder that in order to overcome this devil, we need God.



Now, to get back on topic (because I’m pretty certain we’re supposed to be discussing songs on here, not films), I also wrote a little on the spiritual meaning I see in my favorite song from middle school (before I even discovered contemporary Christian music). It’s Unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield. Lyrics are here. O course it has a special meaning to me because I’ve wanted to be a writer for so long. But the song's meaning is about writing one’s life story. She’s ‘undefined, with the ending unplanned.’ This connects to the omniscience of God, who ‘forming us from the inward parts (Psalm 139)’ knows exactly what our life story is, how it will end on earth, and our goings beyond. But it doesn’t feel like that to us. Because, here, right here on earth and now in the present, we can’t see ahead. It’s just like a blank page. Sometimes this can be terrifying. But Bedingfield’s take is optimistic. Unwritten speaks about embracing the fact that we’re going through life, part of God’s grand book. When we are at our times of great need, all we have to do is,

“Open up the dirty window
Let the Sun illuminate the words that you could not find.”
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Ante Bellum » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:09 am

The 1997 Godzilla is the best example of how we, as humans, are imperfect and need forgiveness.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Nate » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:33 pm

John_Smith wrote:However, you forget that the Japanese name is Gojira, which doesn’t actually have anything to do with God.

The Japanese name is a portmanteau of "gorilla" and "whale" which is a representation of Satan's lies that life evolved from ocean dwelling creatures and humans evolved from apes.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:27 pm

Ohemgee this is too priceless.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby John_Smith » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:33 pm

Nate wrote:The Japanese name is a portmanteau of "gorilla" and "whale" which is a representation of Satan's lies that life evolved from ocean dwelling creatures and humans evolved from apes.


That’s a little bit of a stretch, though, don’t you think?
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Nate » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:40 am

No more of a stretch than anyone else in this thread trying desperately to assign some sort of higher meaning to things.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:15 am

But also all meaning is only assigned by ourselves anyway so what difference really is there?
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Otaku Jordan » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:14 pm

Nate wrote:No more of a stretch than anyone else in this thread trying desperately to assign some sort of higher meaning to things.


Quoted for truth.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby shooraijin » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:59 am

Thanks for the deconstructionism.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Otaku Jordan » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:11 am

It's more on the level of cynicism.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Mithrandir » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:33 am

In either event, cynicism tends to be self-feeding. You know, the way cynics like to portray optimists. ;) FWIW, I'd stay away from the spirituality-as-emotion card, though.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Zarn Ishtare » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:59 am

Xeno wrote:The one with Mothra I think has especially heavy parallels to the story of Jesus as told in the book of Mark.



You do realize this is a christian website, right? Not just a forum for you to practice your cynicism?

Nate, if people feel spiritually empowered or motivated by songs they listen to, be they worship or not, what business is it of yours to rain on their parade? Just because you don't 'get it' doesn't mean that you should use their honest musings as fodder for your sarcastic witticisms. This is the Devotional Readings forum, not the comedy lounge, and certainly not a place to make people feel foolish for talking about faith related issues because you think they are silly.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Mithrandir » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:03 pm

It's already be noted; no need to belabor the point (from either side). If you single out specific members, it's only likely to further derail the thread. If you feel you need to address a note to someone, either ask us to do it or take it to pm, please.

Let's all just move along.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:01 am

Ante Bellum wrote:The 1997 Godzilla is the best example of how we, as humans, are imperfect and need forgiveness.


I enjoyed the movie as a kid.
Now, I find your quote to be hilarious.
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Re: Secular spirituality

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:11 pm

There's the song "Bukowski" by Modest Mouse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr_B2IOUYSw (Medium language warning where they say another word for "butt-cavity")

Anyways the lyrics are as goes:

Woke up this morning and it seemed to me,
that every night turns out to be
A little more like Bukowski.
And yeah, I know he's a pretty good read.
But God who'd wanna be?
God who'd wanna be such an [butt-cavity]?
God who'd wanna be?
God who'd wanna be such an [butt-cavity]?

Well we sat on the edge of the river,
the crowd screamed, "Sacrifice the liver!"
If God takes life, he's an Indian giver.
So tell me now why, you'll tell me never.
Who would wanna be?
Who would wanna be such a control freak?
Well who would wanna be?
Who would wanna be such a control freak?


So let's go compare Charles Bukowksi with God. Sure Bukowski might be a pretty great writer and all, and some people idolize him, but would we really want to live his life? He's a jerk! Identically sure we all like the idea of God, but why would we want to be God (The definition of "God" that Isaac Brock is critiquing)? Who would want to be a control freak? If we don't want to be like that why would God want to be so demanding of us?

And then there's "The Stars are Projectors": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duYqlrgC17Q The final lines of the song goes:

God is a woman and the woman is an animal
That animal’s man and that is you
Was there a need for creation?
That was hiding in a math equation and that’s this:
Where do circles begin?


Just go let yourself sit on that for a while.
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