Doctor Who Fans?

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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Yuki-Anne » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:14 pm

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:I finished season 5. I'm not even sure if I want to keep up with this show anymore... Tennant and Eccleston were my favorites. And the problem is that since the lead writer changed from Davies to Moffat after season 4, there seems to be a lack of continuity. I much prefer Davies as the lead writer. I don't really like Moffat.


Join the club. Moffat's writing has gotten progressively worse. There are some episodes worth seeing. The Christmas Carol special, the first two episodes of Season 6, "The Doctor's Wife," and "Closing Time" are pretty okay on their own.

Season 7 is almost completely terrible.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Mr. Hat'n'Clogs » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:31 pm

Is this the part where I get to feel like a hipster and say I find Moffat's stuff way more compelling than any of the pre-Smith stuff? I've seen series 1, 2, 5, and 6, and I've started 7 and seen some random parts of 3 (the first two episodes, Blink, and the last three episodes). I actually dropped Who when I started S3 but gave the Moffat stuff a shot because of Sherlock and I've found it significantly better at things like handling tone (there's way less lol goofy monsters are KILLING PEOPLE WOAH SERIOUS DRAMA SO MUCH DEATH) and being fun than I found any of the Davies stuff. It still has about as much trouble with making satisfying resolutions to conflict as the early stuff, which is still my biggest problem with Who along with tone, but I am much more likely to be simultaneously amused and invested in Who with Smith/Moffat than I ever am with Tennant/Davies stuff.

I think the biggest problem with Who is that because it has brand new science each episode, it can basically make any solution it needs to because we haven't had enough time to become familiar with the technology/alien/weird thing. One of my favorite authors (Brandon Sanderson, if you're curious) has a rule that basically says magic (or technology) can have increasing importance in resolving conflict proportionally to the amount the magic (or technology) is explained and understandable. Who is generally pretty bad about this (I am not sure there's ever been a series climax that hasn't thrown out some thing we'd never seen before at the very end to fix everything, except for maybe S6 which is kind of debatable) but I am much more capable of enjoying the Moffat/Smith stuff because it is much more aware of how goofy it is and when to play the serious card. The stuff with the Master wasn't bad, by any means, but the whole shenanigans with the Pandorica was great because there was lots of big and crazy things going on but the show seemed much more like it was trying to make me smile (which good Who can succeed at) than to make things tense (which Who can't really do for me when the ultimate villains are laser-spewing trashcans with plunger eyes).

Even at its best it isn't my favorite show or anything (see Battlestar Galactica for something that is basically all I ever want in television), but I thought I'd offer some counter to the Moffat hatin' in this thread.

(also, wow, I haven't posted in CAA in forever and I come back to post about Doctor Who of all thing, who'da thunk)
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:32 pm

Ironically the first episode of Doctor Who I've watched was the 50th anniversary episode. Yup. I'm doing things backwards.

Now, for me Moffat just seems to be pulling plot twists out of thin air left and right. It's gotten to the point of feeling absolutely contrived and the series feels like a quirky variation of the X-Files or something. Now I like Moffat as a story-teller for individual episodes or subplots, but he's no architect compared to Davies. Moffat's episodes seem to be all about crazy situations and cool, flashy, experiences and plot twists and stuff... but where's the heart and humanness that Davies put in the show? It's all missing! I mean UGH I had ALL the feels when seasons 1, 2, and 4 ended. SO MANY FEELS (Season 3's ending was dumb though... SO dumb). The end of season 5 was still pretty dumb too and made no sense either. Like... everything was randomly constructed out of Amy's experiences? What? I'm halfway through season 6 and I feel like the whole plot with River Song is just getting far too fleshed out. Her importance has overstayed her welcome... And let's pull random plot-twists out of our hats! Oh Amy was pretend-flesh half the time! It's just. So. DUMB.

Season 3 was meh, mostly because I think Martha Jones was a lame companion. And again the ending of season 3 was SO DUMB. Let's reverse-age the Doctor with positive-thinking! How does that make sense? Season 4 by contrast was amazing. Donna Noble is fantastic. All the important people in seasons 1-4 are all just regular people, yet they are also extraordinary and brilliant. There's nothing intrinsically important about them. By contrast, Moffat's show takes that away. Every companion is super special and whatever. I don't really like that. Something about the Moffat-era makes the show feel smaller and less cosmic.

That being said, the Eccleston/Tennent crew is the best. And Tennant is still the best doctor ever. With season 5 it's like I'm watching a completely different show, and I've lost the emotional investment now...
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Yuki-Anne » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:21 pm

Christmas special thoughts? I was pleasantly surprised, and I think it was the best episode we've had in a long time.

SPOILER: Highlight text to read: Tying together the plotlines from the past three seasons was something I didn't really expect. Bringing back the Silence and Weeping Angels was a good idea, and I felt that there was just enough to tie it together without rehashing. After the awfulness of the 50th anniversary I was expecting lot a less from this episode. The ending was iffy (the Time Lords can just order up another regeneration for somebody if they want? Whatever, it made more sense the 50th anniversary Deus Rose Machina so I'll take it), but it wasn't incredibly over-the-top or cheesy (I'm looking at you, season 3). I actually kind of liked Clara as a companion for once, probably because the "magical girl" card wasn't played. She was just a normal person who did and said fairly normal things, which is what her character has needed to be all along.

The nun character was a bit much, though. I kind of thought (and maybe a little bit wished) that she would turn out to be a River Song regeneration. Otherwise it's just the Doctor flirting with a random lady AGAIN, which is getting thoroughly tiresome. Here's hoping Capaldi's Doctor does a whole lot less flirting.

Also, man, that was a fast regeneration.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby rocklobster » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:23 am

My thoughts:
First of all, I agree with Hats and Clogs. This is still the same Moffat who wrote such awesome stories as "Blink" and "The Girl in The Fireplace". I like how he injected fantasy elements into Doctor Who. No one has ever done that before, and it was a good change. I learned to like Amy and Rory and was sad to see them go.
Now for the spoiler stuff:
SPOILER: Highlight text to read: At first, I thought it lacked the impact of "Logopolis" or "Caves of Androzani". But after some reflection, I realize that not every death has to have drama. This was a great ending because it was very fairy-tale like, just like most of Matt Smith's era was. I loved all the book-ends: eating Fish Fingers and custard again; seeing Amy as a little girl and then again as an adult; him dying as an old man just as he did the first time around. I liked seeing Clara's family. Clara's family is something I love about New Who: It shows us what they're leaving behind. This was just like meeting the Tylers or the Nobles. We never saw any of that in Classic Who. The town was great. It kind of reminded me of those Christmas village models you see in Hallmark stores. (I find it interesting that Moffat and Davies have actually shown respect to Christianity rather than attacking it left and right coughRichard Dawkinscough.) The regeneration was also nice.
For me, Matt Smith was too short. I keep hoping that we're going to get someone who sticks around longer than Tom Baker did, but I'm doubting that will ever happen. At least it wasn't just one season like Eccleston did. (Why didn't you come back for the 50th, Christopher?) Anyway, I'm eager to see how Capaldi does things.
Oh, and about the regeneration reset--I heard that the 12 regeneration limit was something Robert Holmes designed because he wanted Tom Baker to be the second to last doctor. His idea was never used because they weren't ready to end the show. (Remember the extra regenerations we saw in "The Brain of Mobius"? Yeah, that was Holmes injecting his ideas into the canon. I heard Hinchcliffe wasn't on board with the idea. I got that all from this video.

So yeah, keep up the good work, Moffat. There, I said it. Flame me if you want, I don't care.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby LastLfan » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:05 am

Personally i loved season 7, hate on it if you wish but it was great to me, i loved Clara's role in this season and felt like the arc of going from wanting to know about her to just liking her was really cool. Cold war remains my favorite episode alomg with Blink. The snowmen was great and the time of the doctor did a great job at tieing in all of Smith's run. The first half of season 7 had that slow loss of his sanity and I lpved it, that along with Jenny Vastra and Strax made season 7 pretty great, i mean who could hate Brian
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:02 pm

Moffat is a great individual episode writer, but he's a horrible architect. This is why I like Moffat's episodes such as "Blink" and "The Girl in The Fire Place" but as for an overarching plot, he does a pretty terrible job.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby rocklobster » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:42 am

As we bid farewell to Matt Smith, here's my review of his first episode:
click here
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Yuki-Anne » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:38 pm

LastLfan wrote:Jenny Vastra and Strax made season 7 pretty great


what no how could you I don't even

But I've already said my piece on them. I'm just glad they were nowhere to be found in this last episode.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby rocklobster » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:46 am

Beginning this month, Jelly Babies and Reversed Polarities is going to only do 4 or 5 reviews per month, on a weekly basis. Due to my work schedule, however, this month will be erratic.
Anyway, here is my review of my introduction to William Hartnell:Click here
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby rocklobster » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:27 am

Hey, curious about the Zygons? Here's my review of Terror of the Zygons
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby rocklobster » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:57 pm

OK, Yuki, Mr. Smartypants, everyone who has such intense hatred of Moffat, this article is for you.
Click here
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby rocklobster » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:39 pm

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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Davidizer13 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:11 pm

rocklobster wrote:OK, Yuki, Mr. Smartypants, everyone who has such intense hatred of Moffat, this article is for you.
Click here

A shame it doesn't actually address any of the criticisms they brought up. Most of those are about a perceived lack of inclusivity or the latent sexism of some of his later episodes (which I would somewhat agree with). Yuki and the rest are talking about structural problems, with the way he tells the stories, which even if he fixed the other problems the article counters, would still be there. Did you even read the article or the comments people have been making?
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Yuki-Anne » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:08 pm

Davidizer13 wrote:
rocklobster wrote:OK, Yuki, Mr. Smartypants, everyone who has such intense hatred of Moffat, this article is for you.
Click here

A shame it doesn't actually address any of the criticisms they brought up. Most of those are about a perceived lack of inclusivity or the latent sexism of some of his later episodes (which I would somewhat agree with). Yuki and the rest are talking about structural problems, with the way he tells the stories, which even if he fixed the other problems the article counters, would still be there. Did you even read the article or the comments people have been making?


This. The only criticism of mine that they addressed even vaguely in that article is #10: "he only writes female characters as flirty and feisty." And even that was off. My criticism is not how he writes female characters, my criticism is how he writes companions. The other 9 points are stuff that pretty much no one in this thread has said. For example, I hate the way he wrote Queen Elizabeth, not because I felt that he undermined a strong historical female by making her look weak and stupid and in love with the Doctor (all of which I hadn't considered and now firmly believe ARE valid criticisms; Elizabeth I was horribly written in the special), but because SPOILER: Highlight text to read: he made the Doctor look like a womanizing jerk who loves 'em and leaves 'em. I mean, here's a woman who loves him and trusts him and wants to commit her life to him and her feelings are treated like a joke, and he abandons her. THAT I find offensive. That is not the Doctor I grew up with and love.

Anyway all the criticisms brought up in this thread stand unanswered by that article.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby rocklobster » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:07 am

My review of the 50th Anniversary of Doctor Who: click here
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Yuki-Anne » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:00 pm

So, not to be abrasive, but have you completely given up on contributing to the discussion in favor of posting links?
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby rocklobster » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:45 am

Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't realize the article wouldn't be a help.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Davidizer13 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:53 am

rocklobster wrote:Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't realize the article wouldn't be a help.

Is that because you didn't read the thread beyond "I don't think Moffat's been that great lately," and your knee-jerk fanboy reaction was to Google for an article you also didn't read that you thought might argue against that, but really didn't?

Nah. Couldn't be. That would be ridiculous.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Xeno » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:59 am

Edit: I've been corrected on this. Never mind.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby marro1 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:12 am

BEST... SHOW... EVER... I'm a major Whovian. It's such an amazing show.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Kilvakar » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:09 pm

This is a little late, but I just wanted to chime in as I'm a major Whovian as well!

I really like the new series, but I actually started watching old Doctor Who episodes with my uncle, so I got started on Tom Baker as the Fourth Doctor, and he's still my favorite!
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Furen » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:45 pm

I'm sure I'll like tom baker, but I didn't like the first doctor, and because of that, I couldn't get into the old series, but I love the rebooted half

Actually, if anyone saw that first episode's screening of season 8, I thought Capualdi did a great job, at first I was confused as to what he was going for, but it made sense as the episode continued.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Kotoni-Sukina » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:18 pm

Hey I'm new and also a Doctor Who fan! My favorite Doctor is David Tennant :n_n:
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby Furen » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 am

Kotoni-Sukina wrote:Hey I'm new and also a Doctor Who fan! My favorite Doctor is David Tennant :n_n:

Have you seen any other doctors?

I heard people fight about doctors for a few years before I bothered to finally check out the show, so because of all the fans I knew, I made a point not to get too involved in one doctor at the beginning, so I don't have a favourite, but I do end up having favourite aspects of all of them.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby MomentOfInertia » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:04 pm

Just a reminder for everyone, the new season series starts this week.
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby artisticDreamer » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:03 pm

I've seen all the episodes, like, three times each. xD
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Re: Doctor Who Fans?

Postby MomentOfInertia » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:12 am

BBC America will be running the Christmas special on Christmas at 9PM with reruns at 1145 and 230.
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