Critiquing Wanted

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Critiquing Wanted

Postby Midknight74012 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:18 am

I've been doing a bit of writing and it's my first time doing it. I'm using an open source project called LegacyVerse on dA and would like some feedback.

Andrew Epaphras is the name of the Protagonist

1 Born on the Czardom of Sphere industrial planet of Thawig Prime, Andrew grew up in a tough environment with regular fights with the neighborhood bullies the authorities didn't care much about. The air pollution from all the industrial factories always gave him breathing issues and he's not the only one. Everyone suffered from asthma in 1 way or another. His parents worked 18 hours a day, giving him only a small opportunity to converse with them before they had to repeat the grueling day. He treasured every moment he had with his mother and father. He would do anything for them, and loved them with all his heart.

2 He's mother always taught him not all beings are evil. There is a peaceful existence in the galaxy and he should take a chance to go out and find it.

3 When the CoS learned about his mother talking about peace in other parts of the galaxy, they took her and the father to the execution grounds to be hanged for Treason and conspiracy to take over the CoS. With her last words "I love you, Andrew" they hung her. This devastated Andrew with much hatred for the CoS.

4 At 15 years old, just months after the execution, the CoS drafted Andrew into the CoS to train as an infantryman. The military school he went to was worse then his neighborhood. Only sometimes did he get below 95% on his test, which resulted in solitary confinement. However, despite these setbacks, he managed to graduate at the top of his class, excelling in in all his subjects, top sprinter, top hand-to-hand combatant, and rifleman.

5 Assigned to a unit consisting of 14 other men as squad leader of the 501st, they managed to do some espionage, assassinations, sabotage, and eliminate targets of interest, mainly UEC controlled facilities and Alarian shipyards. In these conflicts, he and his unit bonded in between missions where the brass weren't able to interfere with their conversations and they quickly became brothers in arms. With the success of his unit for 4 years, they were assigned a rather suicidal mission to destroy an Alarian command ship that is under heavy guard of multiple Psions.

6 2300 standard Earth hours, just 5 minutes to the drop point. The target, the reactor core in the center of the command ship. UEC stolen cloak technology working perfectly. 2301 comrades calm and collected, making final checks on weapons and space suits. Andrew alone felt his stomach get to his mouth. Of all the missions that seemed more dangerous then this, this was first time he was nervous.

7 2303 some supplements help calm his stomach down, he worked on his breathing.

8 2304 "60 SECONDS TO DROP POINT!!!" The pilot yelled. Andrew approached the back of the dropship and opened the door. He could see the astronomical ship below, he could've sworn the aft of the ship is over 1 kilometer back. "DROP NOW!!" The pilot shouted.

9 Andrew took the plunge. He could easily see the garbage chute from where he was and started using his jets to get over there. He turned on the magnetic gloves and boots and started crawling towards the chute. Once there, he got just above it and waited for his squad to gather. Took 10 minutes, 5 less then estimated. So far so good.

10 The chute opened up and threw out the refuse. Andrew and his squad took the opportunity to get into the open hatch and do their business.

11 "Alright men, according the layout of the ship, the reactor is past those doors over there. Surprised they didn't put much distance between us and it."

12 Careful to avoid the mechanical workers in the dump, they made their way to the door and waited for it to open. It took 3 hours and it finally opened with a new pile of garbage carted in by an Alarian. They took that opportunity and went in. Glad the suits had sound suppressors to cover their footsteps, they started for the hall, avoiding all the Alareen walking through, and just barely missed getting caught.

13 Phew. This ship is a lot bigger in person, he thought. After an hour of avoidance and walking, they found the door to the reactor. The hacker, Tim, of the squad, began his work on the door while the rest remained on guard. Whenever an Alarian approached, they turned on their cloak. It eats energy like crazy so they could spare only so much. If they were being watched, they didn't know.

14 Tim hit a button on his wrist confirming the successful hack. Which only opened a little to get in. That got inside the reactor silo and had demolitions in hand. They just had one little problem. Wrong door, and the Alarians were prepared.

15 "Crap, the schematic were wrong." The Alareen troopers opened fire on Andrew and the rest of the 501st. Laser fire was only just missing their marks. Jack took a hit to the shoulder but still firing. Looks like the personal shields held but for how long? "Jack, what's your shield at?"

16 "25%, Sir. Looks like we can only take 1 hit from them"

17 "Agreed. Everyone, Abort the mission." Andrew picked up his comm, "Rufus, we need to abort, meet up at rendezvous point Gamma."

18 "Negative. RP Gamma has been blocked off by a force field. It looks like the others have been blocked as well. Unless you can bring those down, your stuck in there."

19 "10-4, roger that."

20 "Sir, Jason is dead, as well as Matt and Nick. We have to move out." Screamed Jack

21 "Agreed everyone, out the door, NOW!!"

22 Everyone activated their Adrenal boosters and ran for the hatch they came in from. An alarian stood in their way. Demoman Kyle pulled out his rocket launcher, and aimed at the unarmored face of the alarian. The Alarian moved out of the way but Kyle figured as much and remote detonated it, giving the Alarian an earful of shrapnel and sound. As they ran past the Alarian, Kyle dropped some heavy duty grenades at her feet. When it blew, she lost balance for a moment, and Andrew threw one more at her head, and the Alarian fell with a thud. With the Alarian out of the way while it's still figuring out what happened, the rest of the 501st found the way to the hatch.

23 Dead set on opening the garbage chute, the team worked together to get in. An Alarian found them and moved to crush them in place. Andrew was the first to get in but the Alarian was coming fast, Jack managed to get in before they instinctively jumped out of the way before the Alarian crushed the rest under the door of the chute. Down to just his communication man, they bolted to the hatch, and wouldn't you know it, it sealed up tight.

24 "Jack, can you think of a way to open that?"

25 "Sir, I've never hacked anything before. How am I supposed to open the hatch?"

26 "Jack, it's your moment to shine. GET THAT DOOR OPEN!! I'll cover your back."

27 "But SIR.... *sigh* understood."

28 As Jack begin his trial by fire of hacking the hatch, Andrew found some garbage to help barricade him and Jack and held. The same alarian that crushed his squad at the door approached them. Andrew cocked his gun and began firing at the Alarian with the special rounds his squad was given. He grazed her shoulder with the first shot. The alien fired back, getting through the barricade and downing his shields to 75%. Good, he may last another shot. Firing another shot, it met it's mark on the alien's neck thinking he may hit something vital. He didn't. It didn't kill the Alarian but did give her a new scar.

29 "Sir, it's open, GO!!"

30 Andrew ran through the small crack, only to be met with the force field. He found the generator.

31 "Jack, we can get out, c'mon."

32 "Yes, si...."

33 Jack was vaporized right in front of his eyes. The Alarian was still up for a fight. Andrew ran to the generator. Only 1 grenade left, he had to make it count. After a quick examination, found the power cord, and set the grenade there and ran. BOOM!!! Generator out, force field down.

34 "Rufus, I'm back at the hatch, the way is clear, GET OVER HERE"

35 "10-4, I'm coming in. Think you can get in while I'm flying by."

36 "We can find out."

37 "How the rest of the squad?"

38 "KIA, now get over here."

39 "Oh man. I'll get ya."

40 After that, the Alarian was in the hatch and started walking towards him. No ammo left. He definitely needed a miracle for this one. the only thing behind him was the vacuum of space and the Alarian was approaching the front of him. He did not want to be a prisoner of the Alarians, not after what he's heard from his Drill Instructors, though he had his doubts.

41 "Andrew, ready or not, here I come."

42 Andrew took his chance and jumped out. The Alarian ran to grab him. Seeing Rufus approach, he activated his jets and made it to the drop ship, just out of reach of the alien.

43 "RUFUS, I'M IN, GO GO GO!!!"

44 After strapping in, they went to light speed home.
-----------------

45 "YOU FAILED!!! AND LOST YOUR SQUAD!!! HOW!!"

46 "They were expecting us, Sir. I have no idea how...."

47 "NO EXCUSES!! We gave you everything after your parents failed to take good care of you and this is how you repay us?

48 Andrew remains silent.

49 "Very well, if you have nothing to say, then you'll just..."

50 A General Rory walks in at this point, "That's enough Lieutenant. Failure is always comes when least expect it. It's not welcome but it should be expected. Remember your incident at the chess tournament when you lost to a 10 year old?"

51 The Lieutenant was silent.
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Midknight74012 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:19 am

52 "Regardless, the vermin Alareen have surprised us from time to time." Rory looks at Andrew." Lieutenant Epaphras, I'm sorry for the loss of your squad. I'll be sure to hold a ceremony for each of them. But before that, I'd like to extend an offer to you. I'd like you to become tasked to a fighting unit that specializes in eliminating the Alareen scum. I thought I'd tell you this in your recent history."

53 "Uhh... I'll have to think about it sir. I just lost a lot of good, honorable men. If I may ask sir, I'd like to return to my barracks for some time to think."

54 "Granted. I'll give you 1 week to think on things."

55 "Thank you, Sir."
-------------

56 "Jack, we can get out, c'mon."

57 Andrew was on his bed, running through the mission from that day. 'What was that light? I first thought it was Jack getting vaporized, but why was there no smoke, not even white? He's been pondering this for a while. He's certain they were killed. They were right in front of him after all. Regardless, the offer the general offered sounded good. Special training to kill the Alareen. After what happened to his squad, he will take it. For now, he'll just take it easy and rest, especially after that mission.

58 He took his mother's neckless from his neck and remembered happier days of having the rare cooked chicken and mashed potatoes she would sometimes cook when she was able, laughing and having a good times, his mother and father giving him their wisdom of always caring for others before himself. They also taught him that not a creatures of the galaxy are evil, it's always up to the individual to decide whether or not to hurt or help the weak and fatherless.

59 He extended these teachings to his squad and helped them gain some allies out in the galaxy. Despite the human supremacist thought of the CoS, he felt it's important to gain allies no matter the species. The Alareen seemed to be the only exception.

60 He picked up the phone to General Rory.

61 "General Rory speaking."

62 "Sir, this is Master Sergeant Epaphras of the 501st. I'll accept your invitation to your new unit."

63 "Glad to hear it son. So I assume that you've thought things over?"

64 "The Alareen took away what was important to me. It didn't take long for me to take the offer."

65 "Okay. I'll arrange for transport to Yavanna. Pack warm it's pretty chilly there."

66 "Yes, sir. Anything else I should know."

67 "Only that your in for a surprise." *click*

68 Andrew wondered what this surprise would be.
----------

69 The surprise being that he was gonna work with the Ice Spawns of Yavanna. From what he knew, they are a species in constant battle with other tribes of Spawns. They are also powerful wielders of Cryokinesis, and ability to control ice and cold but they are unable to freely walk in warm weather, unlike the Alareen that thrive in warm climates.

70 "Well," General Rory started, "what do you think?"

71 "I'm not sure what to think. Since when did the CoS begin to trust a species that isn't human?"

72 "Never. They are participating only so they can have food and water in exchange for their cooperation against the Alareen. From what we gather, their abilities can easily rival the Alareen Psion. There are far fewer Alarian Psion then there are strong wielders of these cryokinetic creatures."

73 "I see. So what makes you think they'll listen to me? I'm plenty shorter then these 20 foot creatures?"

74 "Well, for one thing, you'll have to fight one-on-one with the strongest one they have using nothing but your bare hands. By their law, they are not allowed to use their powers in such a fight."

75 "HA HA HA, How?"

76 "This is exactly why you here. To train to command these folks. The base commander can give you more information."

77 What have I gotten myself into, thought Andrew.
--------

78 The Anatomy class of the Ice Spawns was very informational. He now knows of the strengths and weaknesses of the Spawns. The spine was quite fragile should direct hits actually make it past their flexible limbs that can twist an ways humans can only dream of. Their hearing is not quite as sensitive but their sense of smell makes up for that weakness.

79 Along with the class on their strategies, he felt as if he was ready to face the Spawns. "Alright, what is next sir?" Andrew asked base commander Scot.

80 "Well now we have to physically train you to be able to take on an Ice Spawn hand-to-hand. As you can imagine, it's not going to be easy. You'll have to learn some serious acrobatic skills and stronger strikes. Our scientists and martial arts instructors have been working on this for months and have theorized a workout routine for you. Think your up to the task?"

81 "I got this far. What's to stop me from taking out the Alareen now?"

82 "That's my boy. Now then.. let's begin. First things first, we need to see where you stand at your current physical capabilities."

83 "Alright, how so?"

84 "You'll be running through this obstacle course. We'll determine the time it takes and use that as a basis and try to improve on that."

85 "Understood, Sir."
-----

86 This was no ordinary obstacle course. The pools of water underneath the obstacles were like 34* F instead of the 80 back at boot camp. The ropes were dipped in acetone, a liquid that saps heat from the body. And for an added bonus, they set up a machine that blows air at gale force at sub zero temperatures. The only thing he was wearing were shorts, t-shirt, and standard issue running shoes..

87 "Alright Andrew, you ready for this?"

88 "No."

89 "Okay then. On your mark..."

90 Andrew attempted to generate heat throughout his body by doing some jumping jacks.

91 "...get set...."

92 He set his body in a runner's starting position. He'll have to keep moving and be careful so as to not succumb to hypothermia.

93 "GO!"

94 Andrew set off for the first course. A series of angled planks pointing down at the ice cold water. He easily past the 10 planks. The wind wasn't quite strong here but as he moved forward, he could certainly feel it freezing his body. Next was the roll log. Thing it, it was metal. Not cold enough to that his tongue would stick, but enough to want to lose his grip and fall. He held fast. He was already feeling numb from the cold. Despite the moving around, he was freezing.

95 Next was a curved wall. He would have to run up and grab the overhang while they had a similar machine blowing air from the left. He was losing feeling in his extremities at this point. Next was a trampoline jump across the water and onto a net and climb to safety. He ran for the trampoline and landed on the center. But he jumped to soon. Before reaching the peak, he tried to jump for the rope but missed big time. "This is gonna hurt." Andrew thought. He belly flopped into the water, sending him into shock and nearly drowning him from the sudden inhalation.

96 He can barely move his arms and legs now. He tried to swim for the edge but couldn't make it. The divers went for him and went straight to the infirmary in a burrito of heated towels.
-------

97 "ACHO!! *sniffle* Man.. I know the training was gonna be brutal but c'mon, I'm sure I can already beat one of those Spawns."

98 Base commander Bryan gave him a cold glare. "Listen, Lieutenant. The ORC have determined that until you can get past that course in 40 seconds, you are in no shape whatsoever to take on one of those behemoths. When you hit the water, you were 47 seconds in."

99 "WHAT!! ACHO!!! *sniffle* 40 seconds? That kind of course needs at least a minute. And all that cold air blowing just sapped whatever heat I was generating from all that runni-ACHO!!!"

100 "Which is why this was only a baseline test. When you get to feeling better, you'll start cold weather PT. It's nothing like your sissy P.E. class back on Thawig Prime. This one requires only the bare essentials at the beginning. You'll slowly be losing those essentials till your wearing only shorts in the blizzard."

101 "How long will this last?"

102 "8 weeks. The nerds thought this is a proper time period for your body to adapt."

103 A Nurse walked in "Here you go Andrew. A hot cup of green tea with peppermint."

104 "Thanks." As Andrew sips his tea, he wonders if he'll last through the 8 weeks after he gets out of bed.
-------
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Arya Raiin » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:59 pm

Ooh yay! Critiquing!!!

Mid, is this a outline, rough draft, or the completely story? Not quite sure with the way you numbered the paragraphs. I assume it's the complete story.

Anyway, after reading through it I can see that you need to work on creating a more unique writing style.

My next tip is that you don't have to be quite so descriptive all the time. Allow the reader's mind to create some of the environment. Here's an example. The writers job is like the constructors. The job is to build the basic principals of the house. You don't even have to paint the whole house. Allow the person who 'buys' the house to customize it.

I love the concept of the story. It just need more refining. Good length too. Remember that instead of using "2" use "two".

Final tip! A decent paragraph must be at least six sentences long. :)

That's all! ^.^
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Postby Midknight74012 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:48 pm

Meant to be a rough draft. I also noticed how I got the Chain of Command a little mixed up. Lieutenant > Sergeant Major so I need to switch that up a bit. The purpose of numbering is for critiquing so it is easier to look up the paragraph corresponding with the number instead of jumping around and looking for something. There's gonna be much much more to this. Looking at it now, I could expand some of it. trying to figure out where and how to break it up into chapters with cliffhangers just so I can be hated for that :grin:

As for a unique writing style, what do you mean by that?
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Arya Raiin » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:36 am

As in unique writing style... it's kind of hard to explain. As a writer gains more experience, they get a way that they tend to write. They always fall into the same groove in their writing. That's what makes some writers stand out from others. The things they've read, written, and experience changes their writing. For some people they develop a certian patter in their writing. Some people explain things differently. I guess what I mean is that you're not letting the writing flow enough. I can see that you are trying to keep it more of a formal story. You have to let the story be what it wants to be. Sounds a little weird, right? XD A way I've helped myself with that is to not edit any of the story until I'm finished writing.

It's really hard to explain. :sweat:
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Postby goldenspines » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:39 am

Midknight74012 (post: 1487105) wrote:Meant to be a rough draft. I also noticed how I got the Chain of Command a little mixed up. Lieutenant > Sergeant Major so I need to switch that up a bit. The purpose of numbering is for critiquing so it is easier to look up the paragraph corresponding with the number instead of jumping around and looking for something.
This is probably the best idea I've seen in a while.

Bear with me, this post will be quite long.

Overall, the plot in itself is quite interesting and seems to be going in a good direction. That seems to be the element you've been paying the most attention to. Yet, other elements you seem to have neglected (such as characters). Since this is a rough draft, I can understand you wanting to put all your thoughts on a page just to get them down and in a place where you can organize them better, but characters (Andrew as well as his peers, commanding officers, etc.) cannot be neglected in their development.

Example, Jack. I like Jack] 20 "Sir, Jason is dead, as well as Matt and Nick. We have to move out." Screamed Jack

21 "Agreed everyone, out the door, NOW!!"

24 "Jack, can you think of a way to open that?"

25 "Sir, I've never hacked anything before. How am I supposed to open the hatch?"

26 "Jack, it's your moment to shine. GET THAT DOOR OPEN!! I'll cover your back."

27 "But SIR.... *sigh* understood."

28 As Jack begin his trial by fire of hacking the hatch, Andrew found some garbage to help barricade him and Jack and held. The same alarian that crushed his squad at the door approached them. Andrew cocked his gun and began firing at the Alarian with the special rounds his squad was given. He grazed her shoulder with the first shot. The alien fired back, getting through the barricade and downing his shields to 75%. Good, he may last another shot. Firing another shot, it met it's mark on the alien's neck thinking he may hit something vital. He didn't. It didn't kill the Alarian but did give her a new scar.

29 "Sir, it's open, GO!!"

30 Andrew ran through the small crack, only to be met with the force field. He found the generator.

31 "Jack, we can get out, c'mon."

32 "Yes, si...."



33 Jack was vaporized right in front of his eyes. [/quote] There are many grammatical things I can say about this part, but I'll stick to poor Jack (as a side note, though, that first line does not read "screamed" to me at all. Even with the actual word there. Show, don't tell. You will read me saying that even more in this post).

Now, Jack seems like he could be a good fellow, obeying his commanding officer (I think) who is overly loud and harsh to him. Despite being not skilled at opening doors, he does a rather nice job at it. Yet, you give him little to no credit nor character development (not even what he looks like, his personality, his temperament) and you expect your reader, let alone your main character to care about him once he gets vaporized?


What does detract from poor Jack and his quick death is the fact you have a habit of introducing new random characters we are told nothing about and dismissing them as soon as they've served their purpose of moving your main character along his rather vague path in the story. Every character (or you can call them a plot device if you wish) must be important to you in some way. Even that nameless pilot.

So, tl;dr. Care about all your characters. Tell us something about them. You don't have include a life story for all of them, but their relationship to your focused main character would be good.


Next, I only have clarity of writing and grammar to nitpick on. I'll avoid a majority of the latter since you can do that yourself (necklace is not spelled "neckless", though).


As far as clarity of writing goes, Show, don't Tell. For example, the first 5 parts of your story was probably the most dull of the whole story. It read like a technical bio and gave us no reason to like or even sympathize with the main character. This is all we get:
story wrote: When the CoS learned about his mother talking about peace in other parts of the galaxy, they took her and the father to the execution grounds to be hanged for Treason and conspiracy to take over the CoS. With her last words "I love you, Andrew" they hung her. This devastated Andrew with much hatred for the CoS.
That last sentence, especially, is not acceptable. You never should need to tell the reader what they should think about the character. You SHOW them him and his character. You SHOW them how much this event ripped this 15-year old's life apart. How his own mother and father were carried away one morning, without warning, by men of the CoS. Of how they didn't find Andrew (or they may have killed him too!), but Andrew followed them anyways. Maybe he sneaked in and actually SAW the execution. MY GOSH, that would rip any teenage boy's heart apart and give him a deep hatred for the CoS, the very people who draft him later. Perhaps he even wanted to kill some of them right then. Maybe this is why he rarely makes friends among his peers, why he's so bitter towards everyone, etc.
I'm obviously making things up as examples, but you have to think beyond "this happened and then he felt like this." Make the audience see things how your character saw it. Make us care about him and give us a reason to keep reading, in hopes he will find true happiness.

All things considered, after those first 5 parts, the story gets a bit more coherent. I'd like to see it fleshed out more though. It seems to be in the pattern of "this happened, then this happened". But, most of the choppiness can be smoothed out with more character development (through means of developing your side characters so they can develop your main character, Andrew through whatever relationship they have]Tl;dr - Show, don't tell. There's nothing more a reader hates than to be told what to think. [/B]


But to end on a positive note (hopefully), I do love your story idea and think you plot is definitely something you can springboard off of quite nicely.
Sorry if I seem rather harsh. I hoped at least some of my comments helped. I look forward to seeing how this progresses. ^_^
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Postby Midknight74012 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:32 pm

I don't mind a harsh comment, I'm just kinda wishing I started on a smaller scale then over 100 lines. I've been thinking over this as I worked today, when I actually had a chance to think, and so far nothing really good. I did start it up as a bio but my imagination went wild and just kept going.
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:56 pm

Postby goldenspines » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:55 pm

Midknight74012 (post: 1487253) wrote:I don't mind a harsh comment, I'm just kinda wishing I started on a smaller scale then over 100 lines. I've been thinking over this as I worked today, when I actually had a chance to think, and so far nothing really good. I did start it up as a bio but my imagination went wild and just kept going.
No worries! :D I tend to write like that as well (meaning, writing freely while the idea is there and not considering "oh, maybe I should slow down and develop this character".) Perfecting stuff tends to come later after you read over what you wrote and revise, revise, revise.
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Postby Esoteric » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:11 pm

I don't mind a harsh comment, I'm just kinda wishing I started on a smaller scale then over 100 lines.

You've only written 3,100 words, sir. That is very much small scale considering the average novel is around 90,000. So, don't feel down about having to rework it. If you really want to get good at writing, some day you'll be reworking 90k novels someday and sadly no amount of preplanning can short cut the learning process. You must write, and rewrite and rewrite some more. That's just the way it works.

As to what you have so far, it starts out as a synopsis and then turns into a story at line 6 or so. And it's a very breezy story, like a skeleton that needs fleshing out and refining. Goldenspines gave you some very good advice regarding this.

Regarding plot, there's just one thing that really bothers me. Andrew hates the CoS with his whole being...so why would he ever fight for the CoS? I realize he was drafted, but why not refuse to obey and either die a peaceful martyr like his parents or 'go postal' in the drafting house for revenge? Which brings me to another question. If the CoS hanged his parents as traitors...why would they unquestioningly draft him into their army? That seems stupid even for a big government--especially one so overly paranoid about loyalty.
I caution you to really think about motives here. Either you've got to come up with an amazingly good reason for Andrew to obey the draft and risk his life for the government he despises, or you're going to need to set the story up differently. The way it is now I just wouldn't buy the logic.

Good luck with your efforts.
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Postby Midknight74012 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:57 pm

thanks. right now I've got a list of names and special skills for all 16 members of the 501st, just need a profile on them now. I've been thinking about what you said Eso and I'll find a spot for allowing him to fight in the army for information, what else they have been doing and if he can prevent them in some way without getting caught. I'll remove the synopsis from that. Like I said, my imagination went wild and I couldn't stop. As for a unique writing style, I guess I'll gain that when I have more experience.

Edit: for the sake of not double posting, here are the 4/16 profiles I got for the 501st.

1. Andrew- Squad Leader. After he parents were executed for crimes against the CoS for talking about peace in the other parts of galaxy, he was all but convinced that his parents were evil. The CoS drafted Andrew saying that it was the UEC and Alareen that pushed his parents to start conspiring their government and send details to the "enemy". Andrew decided to use this opportunity to gain intelligence that could hurt the CoS once he found something of interest. Until then, he'll just have to put up with their lies. With intelligence above average and excellent skills in hand-to-hand, firearms, and strategy, he was the perfect candidate to lead the ragtag team of the 501st. When he's not on an enemy space ship, he can be seen on the field in the latest class tank the CoS has to offer.

2. Matt- Shocktrooper Courageous With his life living on the same poor streets as his childhood friend Andrew, they always stood together taking on the groups of bullies and occasionally winning them out. Matt has his fair share of scars from the encounters and always brags about each of them. Matt has never been able to beat Andrew Hand-to-Hand or chess but his bravado certainly surpassed Andrew and that almost always gets him injured. After the death of Andrew's parents and noticing how he was forcefully drafted into the CoS army, he volunteered keeping the fact that he is friends with Andrew and remember the good times with his parents quiet. He was overjoyed when he learned that he was going to be working with Andrew as his second-in-command on the squad of the 501st. He's got a crush on Laura.

3. Nick- Scout Hyperactive. Nick is the youngest of 3 siblings and the most agile. His older brothers always pick on him for being such a small fry. Tired of having to put up with all this, he started doing laps around his neighborhood and discovered his natural ability to run faster then anyone at school and at home, he further developed his run by learning how to juke around faster then anyone can pick up. Interested in his agility, he was drafted into the CoS trained to become a scout for the 501st. While working with Andrew and Matt, he views them as his bigger brothers he's always wanted, despite he constant messing around and no end to his energy.

4. Jack- Tech Expert, Communications Never-shuts-up Nerd. Jack is the only son of a single mother, his father was KIA while on a mission he was never told about. Developing an interest in electronic communication, Jack started building HAM radios that can pick up encrypted military signals from off planet, and sometimes he is able to decrypt just for the fun of it. Some he like, some he wished he never heard. He figured that the CoS has been fighting the UEC/Alarian alliances and was curious as to why the 2 were getting along so well when the CoS didn't want to. He joined the 501st as their communication expert, beating Andrew in intelligence but is the least physically fit of the crew. He respects Andrew for his resolve to finish the mission with the least amount of casualties on both sides. He's often with Rufus in the starship Vigilance Node nearby the 501st.
-------------------------
And here are the rest of the names, skills, and personalities of the rest. Still working on their profiles.

5. Jason- Navigations Optimistic

6. Tim- Tech Expert, Hacker Pessimistic

7. Chris- Engineer, Mechanic Gearhead

8. Rufus - Pilot/Driver Speed Demon

9. Zack - Heavy Weapons Veteran

10. Laura- Medic Caring

11. Eleanor- Human Psion, Telepathy Devious

12. Kyle- Demolitions man Adrenaline Junkie

13. Raven- Stealth Shut-in quiet

14. Hitoshi- Human Psion, Pyrokinesis Loyal

15. Terry- Sniper Sarcastic

16. Paul- Linguist Curious
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Midknight74012 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:10 pm

Jason- Navigation Never one to stay in one place for a long length of time, he knew many routes to any one place in the city on Thawig Prime, such as his favorite sandwich place, areas with clearest air, places even the authorities go out of their way to avoid. Always one to look on the positive side of things, he does what he can to keep moral up for his friends. He was almost never home cause of all the fights his parents would get into. Done with all the running around and the yelling of his parents, he joined the CoS to look for a better life elsewhere. Having a keen eye had it's advantages, he's always been the first to find a way out of a situation such as mazes or ambushes. He's the 501st Navigations and co-pilot of the Celestial Wonder

Tim- Tech Expert, Hacker A street rat on the run from the authorities, Tim as accessed the CoS information database more then once and never did like what he saw. From prisons with no love for humans that have differing views from the CoS, to operations on imprisoning several types of aliens, including Alareen, to perform some rather disturbing experiments, he knew about all of them. With his parents in jail for theft, he's been on the run since then and he know how to make himself hard to catch. Not hard enough. The CoS authorities caught him in a coffee shop and arrested on site. He was given the choice to go to jail and suffer their wrath or join the army and redeem himself by accessing UEC databases for targets of interest. Always keeping his mind on the present, he helps the 501st stay focused when Andrew was too busy. With Andrew always asking him to manipulate the data and send it off while keeping the original, he began to wonder what Andrew was up to. He'll stay just to see what happens.

Chris-Mechanic Gasoline, exhaust, motor oil, and pizza. His garage his is own slice of paradise. Never really caring about the supremacist view of the CoS, he just did what he liked. He repairs, builds, and maintain all sorts of vehicles. Tanks, star fighters, cars, whatever it is, if it can move, he can work on it. He was a civilian working for the CoS. The strangest thing about him, he prefers to sleep in the garage then he does in the barracks. The CoS officers say that's fine as long as he showers every night. He was commissioned to build the best tank he could possibly conjure up using CoS resources. Of course this excited Chris. Once he finished the tank, calling it Wolf's Heart, cause of his dedication for the past 3 years in making the finest tank the galaxy has ever seen. Chris asked the CoS that since he's the only one that knows how this thing work that wherever it goes, he goes. The CoS decided that best and agrees to his terms. He was commissioned to work with the 501st as Chief Mechanic. He and Rufus are like brothers, two peas in the same pod.

Rufus, Pilot. Be it a joystick or a steering wheel, Rufus is a natural when it came to piloting vehicles, Rufus was a force to be reckoned with. He's a civilian hauler moving good from one place to another. But at night, he would go to the underground racing circuit using jet powered hovercrafts. With a 307-30 record, he was one of the best pilots in Thawig Prime underground tunnel racers. With over 100 encounters with the CoS authorities, Rufus has gotten away each time. Instead of catching him next time, the CoS decided to extend an offer by writing to him in a letter sent to a known acquaintance of his. The letter contained not just an offer, but a picture of an actual space craft named the Celestial Wonder. It didn't take long for him to take the offer and become the pilot of the 501st. He and Chris get along great, often racing virtual hovercrafts and he finally met his match.

Zack - Heavy Weapons The tough, grizzled old man, he is the most experienced of the group when it came to battling on the field. His loyalties lie with the CoS, having given him an opportunity to live a life of meaning. When Andrew, who is over 10 years younger then him, he was disgruntled saying he should've gotten the position, not this little wimp. On top of that, Andrew's best friend, Matt, is second-in-command. He demanded to know what the higher-ups are thinking, saying this is just a little experiment. After testing Andrew in strategy and hand-to-hand, he had a little bit of respect for the boy, but not enough to lighten up his attitude with him. Zack is a heavy weapons expert and has brought down many Alareen and UEC troopers in his day, knowing their tactics and weak spots.

Laura- Medic Laura never liked to see a person suffer, and always keeps a medical kit on her person should someone get an injury, be it a bruise or a broken bone. She cared enough to stay with a person overnight just in case they develop any life threatening symptoms if their injuries were serious enough. She volunteered to join the CoS army to become a medic to help end the suffering of many people. Instead they had her perform experiments on people and it scarred her for life. General Rory, hearing of this, punished the officers that forced her into this and transferred her to join the 501st. The sight of Matt made her heart jump. Not from the injuries, but from his air of courage that always hangs about him. Matt was her most often patient, which made her excited and nervous all the time.

Eleanor- Human Psion, Telepathy Eleanor was one of the few human psions born in CoS controlled space. She realized her powers when she just wanted some cake from her favorite bakery. Her desire turned on her powers and when the baker felt sympathy for Eleanor, she simply handed her a piece of cake. This amazed Eleanor. Overtime she developed her powers to mess with people she didn't like. Causing them to dance wildly in the street, drop their pants, suddenly fall asleep, etc. She was finally caught by CoS troopers that specialize in capturing human psions. Given a choice between a lifetime of solitary confinement or working for them, she decided that she would prefer company and joined. She was commissioned to the 501st and only one person could stand her telepathic invasion, Andrew. All his actions and the reasons he says that are behind makes her curious why he fights so hard. She'll have to find out the hard way.

Kyle- Demolitions man BOOM!!! Kyle's favorite sound. He often worked in the basements of his parent's house making fireworks and other pyrotechnics. He would often blow up sewer lines that led into CoS Official buildings just to mess with them. Every so often he would set off fireworks in different locations of the city to make it hard for them to track him. Out of sheer bad luck, he was caught at one of forty firework launch sites. Before getting cuffed, he managed to set off all the fireworks, giving one heck of a show for the rest of the city. 2 years in prison allowed him to make up new combinations of pyrotechnics he'll try once he's out. The CoS army came to him in his cell with all sorts of formulas on the wall. He was drafted to the 501st as a Demolitions man and Andrew said he can only set off pyrotechnics only planet side or he'll have to face Andrew's anger. That stirred him up.

Raven- Stealth Raven's parents died in his early age and the CoS adopted him to train him to become a stealth assassin. Training with the CoS all his life, he knows several different ways of killing assassinating many different creatures of the galaxy. Raven has never been one much for words but when news said that he'll be transferring to the 501st under the command of Andrew, he was a little angry that he didn't get the position since he was training since childhood. But has Andrew tenacity and resolve got more and more clear, Raven came to respect his ability as a Squad Leader.

Hitoshi- Human Psion, Pyrokinesis His pyrokinetic abilities awakened at an early age and the CoS quickly took him in to train his new found abilities. Hitoshi got better with his ability by using it to jump across rooms, blind opponents, burn them at a distance, and even light up the Katana he was given. His superiors satisfied that he has been trained to the best of his ability, he was commissioned to the 501st and often worked along side Raven for stealth missions. He didn't care that Andrew was the Squad Leader, he did just as he was ordered. Hitoshi can beat everyone but Andrew and Raven at hand to hand but always lost at strategy games like poker or chess to Andrew and Andrew only. He's trust with Andrew gets warmer as the missions continue to pile on.

Terry- Sniper Trickshot Terry has been his nickname through high school. Placing 1st in the Thawig Prime Top Shot games, Terry caught the attention of the CoS, but at first wasn't interested in joining, he just wanted to enjoy his life as it is. Growing up in the poorest of the neighborhoods on Thawig Prime, Terry has been the enforcer there by shooting out tires, vases, even messing up peoples' hair. When he hit a vase of a member of the CoS High Command by accident, he was immediately drafted and was trained as a sniper. He really didn't want to be here but it was either this or cutting off one of his hands. When he first got to the 501st, he had doubts of having a good time. Andrew proved that otherwise by constantly challenging him in shooting different targets with different obstacles, everyone doubted him each time.

Paul- Linguist Paul is one that has mastered his tongue. His ability to pick up a word is unmatched even by Andrew. The CoS asked him if he would like to learn the language of the Alareen, the ever curious Paul couldn't resist the opportunity to learn something new. Having some difficulty deciphering the language with a dictionary the CoS gave him, he was able to crack the communications between different ships though it took a while. After a year of this, he was commissioned to the 501st to work alongside Tim in deciphering communications and, at Andrew's request, helped manipulate the data to send off
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Esoteric » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:36 pm

After he parents were executed for crimes against the CoS for talking about peace in the other parts of galaxy, he was all but convinced that his parents were evil. The CoS drafted Andrew saying that it was the UEC and Alareen that pushed his parents to start conspiring their government and send details to the "enemy". Andrew decided to use this opportunity to gain intelligence that could hurt the CoS once he found something of interest. Until then, he'll just have to put up with their lies.

Beware of typos/rushed grammar as they can make you say contradictory--and therefore silly--things.

But I think I understand what you're saying. Andrew pretends to accept CoS's version of events and agree with their actions, when in reality he is plotting an opportunity for massive revenge. You've painted him as intelligent enough to be appointed as a squad leader so I would buy this strategy...if he's willing to kill a few innocents (like his parents) along the way in order to advance to a position where he can deal the CoS a mortal blow. Double agents are often presented with the dilemma of killing one of their own to prove loyalties. Andrew's playing a very dangerous game and he's going to need to be both clever and potentially ruthless enough to sacrifice a few pawns to succeed I think.

You got a nice set of profiles. That's great--you need to understand your characters in order to write them well. Just know that this sort of backstory information should not be info-dumped into the story in this form. Only give us snippets of backstory when and where it's absolutely necessary and relevant to what's happening. Backstory profiles are mostly for you to be able to write character behaviors and dialog in a cohesive manner. If you can't see and understand the characters clearly, there's no way you'll be able to communicate their actions to the reader.

Oh, and I'm wondering, why is talking about peace existing in other parts of the galaxy considered a crime of treason? I would understand if they were criticizing the CoS and saying war isn't the answer, or that the enemy was nice and only wanted peace, but just saying that there's peace in distant parts of the galaxy... how is that threatening to the government exactly?
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Postby Midknight74012 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:07 pm

I'm doing a redo of the first 2 posts I did. I'm working on an actual chapter instead a lack of flow as I did. I know I have a tendency to rush things, cause I'm fast thinker planning things ahead rather quickly. I'm working on the development on Andrew's parents, Matt, and Andrew himself. As for the peace in other parts of the galaxy, the CoS is a communist type government. They are preaching they are a peaceful existence and everyone else is basically a threat. So any talk about getting out to live with the "enemy" would be considered, publicly, that they intended to give their secrets to the enemy to topple them.

Edit Attached is the file on the chapter I've been working on. It's not done. My stump right now is the date scene at the end. I'll be asking around to help get a better scene going.

Edit II: I was told that have numbers for anything but the numbering the paragraphs was not acceptable. I have already adjusted that. I was also told that the last bit paragraphs 38-52 is junk was I deleted it.
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Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Midknight74012 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:10 am

Okay, I'm mad. :mutter: No one has said anything about that last upload I made. Grr. T_T Oh well, I've got a completed rough draft since after I posted that last link. I'll be uploading on dA.
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:02 am

Overall, I feel like the backstory of your main character doesn't flow well. You went from straight dialogue to sudden backstory. What if instead of telling us his backstory in the third person, you let his whole backstory known through dialogue with him and another person? You also don't need to have it all established in the first chapter too.

Just my $0.02
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Postby Midknight74012 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:46 am

As I said, I got a new one up on dA. http://midknight74012.deviantart.com/#/d3kirf8 guess it helps to link it. This is the completed rough draft.
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Esoteric » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:04 am

Writer’s etiquette rule #1, never express anger or annoyance at not receiving feedback. That’s like a charity calling you up and yelling at you for not giving them more of your hard-earned money. People are busy (I’m writing this on my break at work.) You can be disappointed about not getting feedback, but nothing smacks of unprofessionalism like whining about it. There are more tactful ways of asking for input.

#2 There’s something about attachments people don’t like. I know I’ll rarely bother to read something posted as an attachment, maybe because it’s like a gift from a stranger which I’m not only unsure will be safe, but I’m not even sure I’ll like once I’ve bothered to unwrap it. Unless you’re working in a feedback environment where you’re asked to send stuff as attachments, it’s best not to.

But even if you re-post your chapter in text form, I can’t guarantee that I or anyone else here will critique it because it’s strictly a volunteer environment. You’ve actually gotten more of a response than most writing threads here do. Don’t know why some threads get ten replies and other zero, maybe it’s the content, or maybe depends on when people happen to wander in here. Regardless, if you seriously want regular feedback as you write, look into a writer’s group like Reading Excuses over that the Time Waster’s Guide forum. They seem to have a small but regular core of critiquers, but keep in mind you’ll have to ‘give to get’. Other writers aren’t likely to help you if you never help them back.

There are tons of writing groups out there which provide each other with mutual feedback. Find one you like or form your own—those are your best bets.
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Postby goldenspines » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:55 pm

Being honest, I didn't read the character bios you posted simply because doing so it will hamper any critiques I throw at you. Unless you're going to include them in your final story (I personally hope you will not), they will not be helping your future reader. But, for reference for you personally, the bios are extremely helpful and encouraged. Make sure to keep them in mind while writing and at the very least, put yourself in each character's shoes and try to see how they would react to every situation you write for them.

The draft (on DA), overall, is improved.

First part: Jumping right into dialogue makes the story more interesting, but you need to flesh out the setting here a bit more. I'm a bit confused how old Andrew and his friend are, how big they are in comparison to the bullies and how they got in that situation in the first place. The description of the short fight scene was quite nice, though. You're getting better at making things flow more.

Second part: You have a good start, yet Andrew's hardship still seems forced. I'd like to see interaction from his point of view rather that the narrator telling us Andrew's life is hard.
The dialogue in this section between Andrew and the bullies seems a tad weird. Why is he continuing to talk to them? Does he think it will do some good? More importantly, why is the bully humoring Andrew by answering him?
But, the dialogue (more of the mocking tone after Andrew gets punched) flows much better.
Is it essential we know the names of both Matt and Andrew's parents? Why or why not?
If so, more information about them may be warranted. Andrew seems rather unattached to his parents (or rather, ordering them around, treating them like children, rather than expressing care or esteem). Is this because he doesn't see them very often? Is he upset about it?

The offhanded comments about getting interrogated was nicely put. And it expressed how Andrew felt about it and how his parents did (or rather, the kind of face they put up for their son). Though, it is odd that Andrew makes such a huge fuss over it at first in shock, but quickly shrugs it off. Seems unnatural.

Third part: Many thanks for nixing the extra exclamation points. You can nix the caps as well if you want and you would still achieve the same affect. But whatever you prefer works.
Andrew's actions are somewhat blurred in this first section. His blindness to what is going on could be expressed. Or, perhaps some thoughts of seeing what is going on. Or rather, is he scared? Unaffected? Not worried for his parents?
"Fly with the eagles" should be in quotes or italics.
His reaction after entering the trap door is good, but would flow better if his reaction began while still in his room.
Now, some build up to the gallows scene and perhaps some interaction with passersby would be good here.
Also, gallows. What time period are we in? Is there a reason the CoS uses gallows as opposed to any other sort of execution (i.e. firing range, bullet to the head, injection, etc.)?
Last part was good. Make sure to keep building up the emotion even more within all that dialogue and thoughts.


There are other little sentence grammar and flowing nitpicks I could add, but I would need to take your whole rough draft and mark it up with red notes. If you think that would be beneficial, I can do that for you. If you don't think it would be the best or you don't wish for it, don't worry about it. My feelings will not be hurt. :3

Looks like you are developing things along. Just keep pushing yourself forward and brain storming ways parts could be expressed better (especially making the dialogue realistic to your characters).
And apologies, I'm slow with my responses since I'm currently tied up with my own works. ^_^
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Postby Okami » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:37 pm

I agree with Spiney on the realistic dialogue bit. That was going to be my main point. Everything that's been said up until now I might as well second as it's rather sound advice. The flowing of sentences just wasn't there at times and it made it feel like I was trying to trudge through reading it. Nothing really stands out, looking back through it now but I have found that I can easiest correct flow and dialogue issues through reading it aloud to someone (story time!) or with someone (in a sort of play-acting).

There was one point in particular that got me, when you used the term councilor. I believe you meant counselor? Those types of issues can really change an entire outlook. Bringing it to home, I once used the term loath instead of loathe - and they are two entirely different words.

In response to your anger that no one had responded earlier - it was 2am! Even though I know we had talked about it in chat, I said I would do it later (and I stuck to my word.) The fact is, being up that late online, critiquing is not typically anyone's first response of things that they want to do. Yes, of course there are people here that it would have been midday or earlier in the evening, but expecting immediate results should never be the case when it's late in your own timezone.

And, as stated. Make sure that you know your characters so that we know your characters. So often when reading, a reader might forget what a character does or who they are, so it's good to give little hints along the way. Not so often that's it's like "Okay....*grumble*....we get it, he's a pilot." but rather that if a person walked away from it for some considerable amount of time and started right in the middle, it would be like, "Okay, I've got it, he's a pilot, and that's important to note." If that makes sense.
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Postby Midknight74012 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:10 pm

I can answer the gallows part. It's to set an example to those who would dare to think about opposing the government. The government in question is a Communist-type so yea, they are gonna be cruel.

Looking through it for the umph time I can see where my grammar needs improving. Feel free to mark it up.

I'm not to sure on how to flesh out the setting. Guess I'll just have to figure it out.

The bullies, which probably needs a group name now that I think about it, are overconfident in their abilities to take one 2 friends of slightly smaller stature. I'm pretty sure I put done the age of Andrew 2nd part. I took out numerals because of what the administrator of the universe I'm writing in said.

Edit: And 1 more thing. I apologize for my little outburst. I was extremely stressed from that work day and I lack any kind of patience which I continue to work on. It's not a legit excuse, I know.
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby goldenspines » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:52 pm

Midknight74012 (post: 1488519) wrote:I can answer the gallows part. It's to set an example to those who would dare to think about opposing the government. The government in question is a Communist-type so yea, they are gonna be cruel.
You can think about a way to express this in the story. It could just be a little thing that you integrate into the story before his parents are arrested. Like, using the gallows is a big deal and only reserved for those who committed high treason or something.

Looking through it for the umph time I can see where my grammar needs improving. Feel free to mark it up.
I will do that. Though, this weekend is somewhat booked for me (trying to push through and finish up projects for my summer class ending next week), but I'll try to get it to you asap.

I'm not to sure on how to flesh out the setting. Guess I'll just have to figure it out.
How did you envision the scene when you wrote it? Was it a gloomy day? A sunny day? Try to recall the environment you placed your characters in and recreate it. It can be rather difficult of you can't recall what scene you were thinking of at the time, but it's worth looking back at and thinking over. ^_^

The bullies, which probably needs a group name now that I think about it, are overconfident in their abilities to take one 2 friends of slightly smaller stature. I'm pretty sure I put done the age of Andrew 2nd part. I took out numerals because of what the administrator of the universe I'm writing in said.
Try to measure the importance of facts in the story and introduce them accordingly (whether through narrative, dialogue, or simply implying). For example, is it essential we know the general age of Andrew in the beginning? Most likely. Your bullies in the beginning seem to talk like they're in 5th grade, yet Andrew is stated to be 17 later.
One example to introduce his age could be to express how long these bullies have been picking on him (then stating his age for emphasize of the fact that these guys just won't quit). Think about ways to express your points without outright stating them. Play around with different ways of saying things. ^_^

Edit: And 1 more thing. I apologize for my little outburst. I was extremely stressed from that work day and I lack any kind of patience which I continue to work on. It's not a legit excuse, I know.
No worries. I know the feeling of frustration because of lack of responses. I suffer similarly when posting my art. ^_^
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Postby Midknight74012 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:38 am

been edited once more.
Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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Postby Midknight74012 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:56 pm

Psalms 82:3-4
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
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