Another Bible game Really?

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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby mechana2015 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:04 am

Zeke365 wrote:All right this very funny, you know as well as I know there not much christian games like this yet you say it cheesy or it wont be any good. Did you ever think we don't get christian games is we can be to CRITICAL ABOUT EVERYTHING. I not saying it a bad game but for those who thinks it cheesy or something then I like to see you do better job.
The reality is we really want something like this and the concept is great plus I want that epic soundtrack but I just don't get it with you, here a christian game somewhat higher quality than others out there and your already bashing it. Give the game a chance and don't be so harsh to judge something, yes I know I opened a can of worms here but I'm not trying to be mad or troll but trying to point out something.


I have a lot to say about this, and some more pointed criticism and concern for the actual Kickstarter, some directly related to your comments. These are all my own opinions and don't represent CAA or anyone but just me.

First of all I agree with Peanut and David. So if you want my take on why criticism of a project like this is just fine, and probably should be done more often and aggressively read their posts again. The christian media industry as a whole is an embarrassment, and its due to severe lack of critical oversight and a sheep like consumer attitude that results in, as Peanut phrased it 'exploitation films' (or games or other media... see the wonderful world of christian romance novels for the scraping-off-slivers-of-wood bottom of the barrel). For more details and why I'm pretty loud regarding this sort of thing, you can also read 'Addicted to Mediocrity' by Schaeffer. It was written before I was born and its highly unfortunate that the book is still so relevant because it means that the problems it addresses haven't been addressed... pretty much at all.

So lets address a few of the things you said here.
'We don't get christian games because we're too critical'
I severely doubt this. I'd hazard a guess that, between the christian game companies shooting themselves in the foot with regards to larger publishers back in the NES days, by way of companies like wisdom tree essentially hacking, or breaking into Nintendo systems to make their games work, something I'm sure still bothers some people today, and the distinct lack of a filter for content or critique for quality that we've addressed above, the term 'christian game (or 'christian' media really) is shorthand for 'bad' similar to how comic book was a synonym for dreck a few decades ago (resulting in the use of the phrase Graphic novel coming into play to try to redeem the media for consideration as an art form.) With regards to their little skit in the video, I'd agree that they'd get laughed out of the room at a major company for the same reasons were panning the Kickstarter project here, the pitch is incomplete and underwhelming, and looks like its about 2 generations behind in graphics for the systems they're suggesting it be used on. Its like trying to pitch a shovelware game you'd see at Staples for 5 bucks to EA or Sony as a AAA game for their main system, especially if the insulting attitude they portrayed the big guns in the industry with came across during their pitch. Quality concepts sell, egos ruin projects. The concept art isn't bad, but the actual game graphics they show don't reflect that art style, and there's nothing about the actual type of game they're making. I will definitely be critical when I'm being asked for money for a game and my first reaction to the ONLY screen shot is 'ugh'.

As for 'I'd like to see you do a better job before being critical', go take a look at all those critics that review secular movies, then check IMDB. Siskel and Ebert between them have only 2 big screen writing credits, both Ebert, no directing, and one acting gig none of which many people would find outstanding. And yet they're the most successful critics in the western media. Leonard Maltin has some writing but its all documentary work, no dramatic acting to note, hasn't been behind a camera as a director at all, and yet per IMDB... 'one of the most recognized and respected film critics of our time'. Criticism is its own skill unto itself, presenting the good and bad... or the bad and worse of a project in a manner that both entertains and informs is something that does not require in depth hands on experience in the production side of the process.

Now to the nitty gritty of the actual kickstarter and some criticism more directly aimed at it, and explanation of why I'm being so critical.

I haven't actually seen much of the game for this game project. They show a very limited area with a few run/jump cycles. No real gameplay. 3D platformer is a huge range of possible game types, and their descriptions are less than useful, and even their demo video is less 3D and more 2.5D, with no indication of the 'massive' world.

As young David, travel back to your hometown Bethlehem. There, you'll meet Samuel who will change your life forever. On the way, avoid Philistine raiding parties and wild animals, and learn the state of your people.


Stealth? Combat? Assassins Creed stealth or Splinter Cell stealth? Combat like AC or more Dynasty Warriors? Or is it more about choosing the right path?

The journey to Gibeah reveals a nation in distress. You follow the soldiers to the capital, by clearing the road, overcoming obstacles and confronting resistance together.


Cooperative? Combat? RTS? Does it play like X-COM, Total War or Dynasty Warriors?

At the front lines, it becomes clear how different you are. Eager to end the giant's scolding of your people and your faith, you spread tales of defeating the giant. Will you convince the king to let you represent his army? And will you face the giant, alone?


How on earth will you actually do this fight, as its own game episode that isn't going to be insanely short. Play the war through? Total War: Bible Edition with a final faceoff? Or will this chapter be 10 minutes long, as you go pick up 3 rocks and sling them at the guy, with holy strength and perfect aim? Convincing the King is mentioned... will there be dialogue? Is this game going to be closer to mass effect? How far off from the bible could you veer if there are dialogue challenges? How long will that segment be, realistically?

Those are the first three, the ones they're trying to sell us up front.

With regards to the art, concept art is interesting. The game looks nothing like it, and retains none of the style, and is graphically disappointing so far.

And as for that epic soundtrack.
It says nothing about the setting. It sounds generic. It sounds completely out of place, and will NOT please much of the audience. I might like it as its own CD, if it were less 90s casio electronic sounding on the first song and not associated with a game set in the BC era for the later ones, especially the Goliath piece. It sounds like a Sci Fi game soundtrack, something for an older version of Deus:Ex. Especially the dubstep in Episode 5... that makes no sense.

Theres other strange things, like the bizarre limited nature of their early bird perks. These would be, maybe ok for a more cutthroat genre of Kickstarter, like music, but... limited Family based content? Isn't that sort of the opposite of what you want to give out for a family game? Also, usually the limited things in KS are physical copies of digital rewards, like a actual CD of the soundtrack, or printed artbook, not easter eggs in game... and I don't even know how you would limit those O.o. Its a strange sort of push for people to hurry, hurry, hurry, buy, buy, buy. I think this is due to inexperience and lack of research, but its just bizarre.

So overall looking at the kickstarter what am I seeing.
First of all, this is an under described project. There's not enough information about the actual project to make a good decision about the game. No idea how it plays, the type of game. The first thing I'd be looking for is gameplay demo, even just a short segment, especially if its a good way towards being finished for the first 3 chapters like they indicate in the video. I'm not sure if it's deliberate or just poor Kickstarter management, but its not a good thing to try to sell something based on your name alone. Numbers, especially unrelated or inflated sounding numbers are pointless. I've been playing games for years and never heard these guys names, and even games on kickstarter based on the reputation of well known developers have not gone so well. (Tim Schafer, looking at you. I know it got fixed eventually but still, not a good day. Also Rick Priestly, seriously his first campaign was sad.) So based on this fact I have to come to one of two conclusions.

Option 1. They're trying to sell this to parents, not actual players of games. They're trying to sell based on their reputation, big numbers, big promises, and very little actual technical information, assuming that the audience isn't literate enough in games to actually care about the information I was asking about up above. In my opinion, huge misstep, but not malicious, just insulting. They clearly have some ego driving this here, given the attitude in the video and their reliance on big numbers, so it could just be misplaced marketing. I hope so.

Because...

Option 2. This could be a cash grab stunt or a really poorly planned project. They're firing out big numbers and very little information. Unrelated sounding music that could literally be from anywhere that isn't well known. One single CGI model that a student could whip up in senior year of college, or earlier. A setting that could be constructed in a weekend. A lower end game engine (Unity). The art is pretty cool, but thats the only thing that really catches my eye, so that may have cost them a little, but as I said, not impressive overall. Their attitude bugs me. Their big names don't really relate to gaming even for gamers. Their training numbers are meaningless and possibly unverifiable.

Heres the real problem for me. They have lowest goal I've seen for a project like this, and even with a bare trickle they'll possibly fund. 35,000 isn't a massive amount, Five Iron Frenzy only put up $30,000 for their new album. It's not a big number to hit. So first of all its low... really low. Another partially finished game, Warmachine: Tactics had a budget of $550,000, mostly for publishing, not game development. Broken age had a budget of $400,000 to make the game from scratch. Both of those much larger games were selling for less than this game, $25 and $15 respectively as opposed to $25 for the incomplete game (3 chapters), or $35 for the full version which could... still only be 3 chapters. :/ That in itself is a little bit disturbing but...

Thats if they deliver a game at all.

Heres the really dark part of this option. If they do fund, and they've given themselves an astounding amount of time to do so, per Kickstarter rules as I currently understand them, they are not obligated to actually deliver a product. The only regulation in most states right now in the US to protect backers on Kickstarter is the reputation of the person that started the Kickstarter. There's started to be some blowback and lawsuits against people just taking money from kick-starter and running, even for projects with much more information presented from the start about the actual project (Doom that Came to Atlantic City). I hope this isn't the case but for me the numbers seem very strange and VERY low, and they're bothering me enough to mention that its very much a possibility that one could get a very substandard result, not what was promised, or literally nothing at all, not due to malice just due to asking for too little money, and with little to no recourse available for the backers. If they want this to make sense they need to post some sort of budget summary so backers know what that 35K will buy.

TLDR
In summary, they seem to be selling the idea of a game... and I'm not entirely convinced that there's actually a full game of the caliber they're suggesting behind it.

I know that sounds depressing and I really do think mostly that the off kilter nature of the project is inexperience with kickstarter but the numbers and information isn't transparent or abundant enough to make a decision, and it has more than enough strange things going on that its worth pointing out. They've also broken a core comment they made when they launched the KS:
Scope: Rather than promising to make the game work on every platform out there (mobile, tablets, consoles, etc) we're keeping our focus small for now (Mac & PC).


But...

SONY PLAYSTATION ANYONE?

Our game is submitted to Sony, pending approval for Playstation 3, Playstation 4, PSVita. Approval is up to Sony and we're waiting to hear back. The technology is in place to deploy to these devices, so we can't wait to see if they'll let us distribute this epic game on their platforms.


Scope shift nearly killed that $400,000 dollar Tim Schafer game (which funded for over 3 MILLION BTW).

They also seem rather excited to have reached partial funding especially with their expanding scope, so I'll try to attribute these to inexperience with KS as well. If I was only 50% at two weeks I'd be pretty concerned honestly, most campaigns level out until the last week unless they have a steady stream of updates, increased information about the project, response to commenters and added stretch goal information, and even then there's a measurable lull. Me, I'd be excited if I funded 30K+ in 2 hours.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Furen » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:36 am

Peanut wrote:
Furen wrote:Incredibly cheesy I'd assume.
You'd have to look through their entire history, just looking for some variation of "I prayed for God to come into my life"
Then again, I'm sure they'd mix it up a bit...

Probably but you wouldn't necessarily have to go that route. You could make a game that genuinely asks the question"What constitutes a Christian" and actually wrestles with that question in a way that recognizes grey ares and fringe cases. I would actually really like a game where I'm sitting around, banning people from heaven based on my own beliefs and am then confronted with Albert Schweitzer who proceeds to make a very compelling case that my view maybe wrong and I should probably let him into heaven since he has acted more Christ like then many other people I would have let in.

Run Jesus Run is a very simple game that covers the four gospels in about 10 seconds. Its actually pretty good.


That sounds much more game like than mine, though again, then it's doctrinal morality, but that's totally what papers please was about then... wasn't it?

I don't think you understand the excitement I had while attempting that Run Jesus Run game... Once I realized you need to press space bar to... well... do "Jesus things", I was like. I GOT THIS.

Genesis - So... like a Minecraft/Terraria esque game that has to follow God's design of the world. I'm down
Exodus - Stealth escape/prison break. Sounds fun
Leviticus - you could be like... a cop busting the rule breakers with stones, or you could be a priest with a morality gague on the people you talk to, and like... sacrifice animals and go through the purification process. Eh... you need something right?
Numbers - Game about wining people getting nothing they want, so... the sims when you have the starter jobs.
Deuteronomy - Pattern game (As in line with the Deuteronomic principles. One God, One People, One Place of Worship) if those don't work, the pattern is screwed up, just like the people. Hey... I had to find something for it too... they're good books, but not sounding like exciting games... I'm working on it...

Joshua - War game, plain an simple. RTS, no resourses, rely on God's provision. Anyone?

Alright, before I'm shot from all my terrible game ideas, I mentioned it on my Facebook to people, and it was overall mixed responses from "LOL NO" to "Hey, if it brings the bible to kids who would rather not read, to a desire to learn more, then let's do it"

I myself would... as Peanut said, HAVE to play it if it does actually come out, I'd need to experience it first hand.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Davidizer13 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:19 am

mechana2015 wrote:Heres the real problem for me. They have lowest goal I've seen for a project like this, and even with a bare trickle they'll possibly fund. 35,000 isn't a massive amount, Five Iron Frenzy only put up $30,000 for their new album. It's not a big number to hit. So first of all its low... really low. Another partially finished game, Warmachine: Tactics had a budget of $550,000, mostly for publishing, not game development. Broken age had a budget of $400,000 to make the game from scratch. Both of those much larger games were selling for less than this game, $25 and $15 respectively as opposed to $25 for the incomplete game (3 chapters), or $35 for the full version which could... still only be 3 chapters. :/ That in itself is a little bit disturbing but...

For comparison, Barkley 2 (some strong language) also had a goal of $35K, but from the video and description, you get a much better idea of what the finished project is going to be like, not only in the way it'll look, but the gameplay and writing style as well. They spend their whole video hyping the game instead of doing a dubious skit to beat up a strawman game executive, they're realistic about what their goals will be from the start, and while their scope has changed significantly thanks to getting 300% of their goal, they're holding to them (unlike Broken Age, which had to use a second Kickstarter to stay on track for funding). Best of all, all that is coming from programmers who, to the best of my knowledge, had never made a commercial game before this one, but they knew more what they needed to do to sell the game to backers than these twins seem to.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Ante Bellum » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:03 am

The concept artist, for anybody curious.

So the pledges haven't budged much in the last couple days. Could be a lull, could indicate that interest overall has died. They could still make their base goal, but even at the rate they were going before (about 1k a day, assuming a 60 day campaign), they wouldn't have met the first stretch goal.
I went and listened to the music for the first time after Mech brought it up. I can't remember the last time I heard something so unfitting. You can make an "epic" (but can we stop overusing that word, please, especially when something like this doesn't hit remotely close) soundtrack that isn't stuffed full of ??? electronica. Okami is a good example of using traditional music and instruments to influence a score. If these guys want to claim that they're making an accurate Biblical setting, why wouldn't they do the same? All their work consulting with historians and archaeologists would get undermined by dubstep.
So about the Tornado Twins themselves. They share a name with some superheroes. Besides that, though, has anybody ever heard of them? They claim to have trained over forty thousand developers and twenty thousand musicians, which is...suspect at best. They have a company/site, gameprefabs.com, that is just Unity assets. Their tornadotwins.com site is a blog. They have a YouTube channel for Unity tutorials, but it only updates every few months. Most of their videos don't even break twenty thousand views. So, have these guys ever, I don't know, taught a class? Never mind that they'd have to be teaching for a very long time to reach those numbers, but on what basis are they claiming to have that many students?

"If you don't like it, let's see you do a better job" is classic. Don't tell me you've never passed judgment on a movie before. If you have, well, show me that you've made a better movie, and only then will your comment be valid. Try "you don't have to be a chef to know the food tastes bad." If somebody's making something for general consumption, they are open to criticism.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Nate » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:52 am

Davidizer13 wrote:"Oh, Solomon-kun~~ Y-you're making me blush...but you're so poetic. Tell me about my thighs next!"

"Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle, that feed among the lilies."

"SOLOMON-KUN YOU BAKA HENTAI!"
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby mechana2015 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:11 pm

Actually Furen, an accurately made Sims type game set in biblical times could be funny and educational, funny if you go off the rails sims style and maybe find out why some of the general laws existed in that time period, and educational if you actually try to keep the law. Extra points if you have the option to play a Levite and follow all of the Levite specific laws as well. Set it in exodus and it could be like Oregon trail meets Sims. Probably not a smash hit, and not an easy game to make, but an interesting concept for learning about the setting, history and context of the time period.

And the artist is calling the game a 2.5D side scroller. Genre confusion continues.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Nate » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:41 pm

I dunno, from what little gameplay footage there is, 2.5D side scroller seems an accurate description.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby mechana2015 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:41 am

Ah after rewatching their video, you're right, and they say 2D side scroller with background effecting the foreground and vice versa, so it is indeed a 2.5D game. Which now makes those descriptions even more confusing as I can't think of a way to do some of what they're suggesting for some levels well in 2.5D. I'd really like to see a few seconds of actual gameplay, charachter interaction, combat or the like to figure out how the game will actually play.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Peanut » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:09 am

Nate wrote:
Davidizer13 wrote:"Oh, Solomon-kun~~ Y-you're making me blush...but you're so poetic. Tell me about my thighs next!"

"Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle, that feed among the lilies."

"SOLOMON-KUN YOU BAKA HENTAI!"

You know Nate. I was about to post something just like this a few days ago but then got side-tracked with work and job searching. I am glad to see that I didn't need to make this joke.

I checked some of the other Kickstarter games I've supported. Hyper Lite Drifter only had a Initial Funding goal of 27,000 but again, they sold the game as a game. I mean the video on their kicstarter site is literally nothing but gameplay set to an amazing soundtrack. Shroud of the Avatar, which is likely similar in scope to the overall project of making a series of games based on the entire Bible had a funding goal of 1 million. So yeah, I think these guys really don't know what they are doing or likely just stole my money.

In terms of teaching a bunch of people, I think it is possible that they are both those guys who everyone (or a lot of people) inside the business know and have heard of but nobody outside of it and is a casual consumer would. They have at least some evidence that they do know people who worked on the Lego games and the Assassin Creed PSP port, so I don't think its unlikely. Still their numbers are a bit ridiculous and I really doubt them. It would actually be better for them to have a former student whose maybe a big time game developer through their weight behind this project and say something like "I learned everything I know from these two." That would actually instill some confidence in them from the gamer public.

A lot of people have been commenting on the art. I think its ok but I've seen way more impressive even in Christian video games. Heaven the PC game, for instance, has way better art in my opinion (though what you like in art is very subjective)...while we're at it it looks way better then the game these twins are making and it was made in 2009. Trailer for anyone who is curious.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Ante Bellum » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:56 am

Man, you could have spent that thirty on Heaven the Game, couldn't you.

I regret not drawing that Song of Solomon harem joke back during the Adam's Venture streams. Dredging up old jokes is the best worst best.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Peanut » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:02 am

Ante Bellum wrote:Man, you could have spent that thirty on Heaven the Game, couldn't you.


Heaven is another game I've been intending to pick up and stream at some point. Mostly because I've seen the intro and its...very questionable to say the least. I won't spoil it because if I do get it and play it I will be making jokes about it and I don't want to ruin it.

Edit: Oh gosh, oh man. I'm going to quote directly from a message I got on Kickstarter for backing this.

By backing, you will also be able to speak in to the development process if the KickStarter becomes a success. We can't wait to learn from your insights... and to share what we've already built!


Edit on top of an Edit: I need to correct something I said earlier. There are, in fact, FOUR Left Behind games, not three. The fact that they have been able to justify not one but three sequels amazes me.

A Third Edit on top of the Edit that was supposed to be on Top of my last Edit:...The fourth Left Behind game is downloadable for free...WELP, I know what I'm streaming after I'm done with Cubicle Quest.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Ante Bellum » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:41 am

Kickstarter to get Peanut a copy of Heaven the Game. Backer rewards include shoutouts and writing your username in the stream title.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Davidizer13 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:07 pm

Peanut wrote:Edit on top of an Edit: I need to correct something I said earlier. There are, in fact, FOUR Left Behind games, not three. The fact that they have been able to justify not one but three sequels amazes me.

Wait, all I've heard about were the RTS and the stand-alone expansion (back when that was a cool thing to do); what are the other two?
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Peanut » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:25 pm

Ante Bellum wrote:Kickstarter to get Peanut a copy of Heaven the Game. Backer rewards include shoutouts and writing your username in the stream title.

Pff, those would not be my backer rewards. I'd do something like:

$1: My humble thanks
$5: A Shoutout on my stream
$10: The chance to get on skype for exactly 30 seconds with me and make one comment about the game.
$20: The chance to get on skype for one minute and make any comment you want about the game.
$35: A signed photo of me posing with the game.
$70: A record of me laughing at you for paying $70 for me to buy a game that only costs $35.

I'd also include stretch goals like:

$70: I'll buy a second copy of the game and switch between the two before each stream
$105: I'll buy a third copy and have it placed conveniently behind me so you can all gaze upon its beauty
And so on. This is why you shouldn't give me money to do things on my stream.

Davidizer13 wrote:Wait, all I've heard about were the RTS and the stand-alone expansion (back when that was a cool thing to do); what are the other two?

I thought exactly what you were thinking, then I went to wikipedia a few years ago and found they made another stand alone expansion. Then today I check the wikipedia page again and found that they made yet another standlone expansion. At least this one will cost me exactly nothing to play...well minus the psychological damage and wasted time.

Edit: I should update on the Left Behind games since I keep looking at stuff and am finding out more and more info that is bizarrely interesting. First and foremost, The other three games can be bought for really cheap on Amazon so I may pick them up in the next week with the plan to stream and rage at all of them after I'm done playing Cubicle Quest. Secondly, Left Behind Games is no more. They actually closed their doors and laid off all of their employees back in 2011. On top of this, their founder along with one of his friends were charged with fraud in 2013. This is on top of the rather well documented controversy surrounding the first Left Behind game which included threatening to sue bloggers for negative reviews of the game. This is actually relevant to this conversation because it represents the exact reason many of us are a bit weary of any Christian game especially when the tactics being used to advertise it are already somewhat...shady. I'm willing to give these guys the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things, but so far a lot of their dealings could of and should have been better. But, they are also at least claiming that they want feedback and for their backers to be involved in the development process which is a good way to build up trust. Of course they will be doing this and have yet to make it known how they will be doing it.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby mechana2015 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:28 pm

http://youtu.be/E7lD97BxMN0 So the ever timely Extra Credits posted an episode today about shovelware. I'd like everyone to take a watch through and see what kind of parallels can be drawn...
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby DaughterOfZion » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:05 pm

On the twins claim of training thousands of people, one possibility is that they've worked for an online tutorial subscription site like digital tutors. They could be counting the views on their hypothetical tutorial or something.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Davidizer13 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:10 pm

mechana2015 wrote:Actually Furen, an accurately made Sims type game set in biblical times could be funny and educational, funny if you go off the rails sims style and maybe find out why some of the general laws existed in that time period, and educational if you actually try to keep the law. Extra points if you have the option to play a Levite and follow all of the Levite specific laws as well. Set it in exodus and it could be like Oregon trail meets Sims. Probably not a smash hit, and not an easy game to make, but an interesting concept for learning about the setting, history and context of the time period.

The Exodus game sounds a lot like The Banner Saga - leading a bunch of very disgruntled people through barbarian-infested deserts to a promised land, making hard choices, fighting the occasional tactical battle...

That Heaven game, I saw it a ways back and I wondered what became of it - like Peanut suggested, it's...special. And while the environments are absolutely gorgeous, that facial animation is disconcerting. If I had to describe the uncanny valley to someone, that's a great visual aid. Can't wait for the stream, if it happens.

Speaking of, Peanut, since the twins running the Kickstarter are looking for feedback, why not link them this thread? Two pages of suggestions/criticisms sounds like what they're looking for...
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Peanut » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:04 pm

Davidizer13 wrote:Speaking of, Peanut, since the twins running the Kickstarter are looking for feedback, why not link them this thread? Two pages of suggestions/criticisms sounds like what they're looking for...

They hinted in the message that they will be doing something after the Kickstarter is successful. I would prefer to wait to see more of the game before I start getting critical but I likely will bring up any problems and issues I see. This is assuming they succeed and they execute all of this.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Zeke365 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:25 am

okay I did what some you suggested and posted a link when I was asking questions about this game and I had some of mine own as well. So I will tell you the reply once I get it. Also I really surprised like another person how active this thread is.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Peanut » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:47 pm

Let us know if you here anything.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Zeke365 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:29 pm

here list of questions I asked and what there responses

1.Could we see what the game play other than what you showed?

response: People that take a risk and pledge 30 bucks will get access to the beta and have the ability to speak into the game while it's being created. They will be able to test gameplay by December.
What we've made before is an Skyrim-style FPS and the gameplay is completely different. We've chosen not to distract people by putting different versions out there.

2.If the goal is reached is there a possibility to have it on other game console like Wii U or 3DS?

response: From all the people that have seen our KickStarter, only one has asked about Wii U. You're the second :-). We like to under-promise and over-deliver so we're not promising too many platforms, of which the Wii U so far seems the least in demand. All Sony platforms are pending though.
If the Wii U communities show up in high numbers to support this, we'll have no problem re-evaluating our platforms. But people often underestimate what it takes to deploy on other hardware... even with engines like Unity.

3.3.In bible translation are guys going to use multiplie translations of the bible or you sticking with one translation of the bible?

response: Good question. I would like to stress though that it's not a game where you *read* the Bible, you play it. You experience the culture of that time and face the challenges David faced. When you pause the game you can see what chapter of the Bible you're playing, but it's not a game with a lot of reading. (I think they misinterpreted this question in my opinion)

4. It looks like it would be similar to klonoa on Wii which is 2.5D platformer which use the camera in different ways?

response: The best game to compare it to right now is DeadLight (without the zombies).

5.Will the scenes be in cut scenes telling us what going on or will it be implement into the game?

response: Both. Of course we try to avoid long cutscenes and most of the story happens interactively. But sometimes you have to lock the camera and show a fixed story piece. However, we try to keep that to a minimum.

plus here what they said about the thread " Haha, great thread, I love reading people's raw response. Thanks for posting it and getting the word out, very fun stuff. "

I hope this helps you all.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Peanut » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:44 pm

Zeke365 wrote:here list of questions I asked and what there responses

1.Could we see what the game play other than what you showed?

response: People that take a risk and pledge 30 bucks will get access to the beta and have the ability to speak into the game while it's being created. They will be able to test gameplay by December.
What we've made before is an Skyrim-style FPS and the gameplay is completely different. We've chosen not to distract people by putting different versions out there.


I completely appreciate that they are doing this but I really do have an issue with this or at least how they are pitching this. It comes across as trying to twist people's arms into supporting the campaign. I can understand doing a limited beta for backers at a milestone but that shouldn't stop them from releasing a gameplay video for people who are looking and trying to decide if they do want to support this project. Right now it sounds like they are sort of holding people at ransom basically saying "Oh you want to actually see how the game looks and plays? Well pay $30 and you can! Want to see something before that? Too bad its for people who pay only." It just sounds manipulative.

Zeke365 wrote:3.3.In bible translation are guys going to use multiplie translations of the bible or you sticking with one translation of the bible?

response: Good question. I would like to stress though that it's not a game where you *read* the Bible, you play it. You experience the culture of that time and face the challenges David faced. When you pause the game you can see what chapter of the Bible you're playing, but it's not a game with a lot of reading. (I think they misinterpreted this question in my opinion)[/quote}

It makes sense to me. For a game that is trying to get you to live through David's life what translation they choose isn't all that important. Really if they were going to do it well they would go to the original manuscripts as well as what has been written by scholars and other experts on the topic. There are some stories in the Bible that are affected by translation but David's story really isn't one of them as I remember and even then, for the reason I stated earlier, it shouldn't matter.

Zeke365 wrote:4. It looks like it would be similar to klonoa on Wii which is 2.5D platformer which use the camera in different ways?

response: The best game to compare it to right now is DeadLight (without the zombies).


This is an ambitious comparison. I actually thought it looked more like a 2d lego game then Deadlight given the somewhat stiff animation.

Zeke365 wrote:plus here what they said about the thread " Haha, great thread, I love reading people's raw response. Thanks for posting it and getting the word out, very fun stuff. "

Yeah that's pretty much the response I expected when you said you linked the thread. No need to respond or really react too much.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby mechana2015 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:22 am

Yeah I don't think they read the thread. You'd think they'd try to be more reassuring if they had, considering there's been concerns about the legitimacy of their project, not 'haha great thread'.

As for dead Light? Not a good comparison considering the game is middling in scores and considered to be short and linear, two major concerns that I was having about the plot and 2.5d content, too short and linear to be fun.

I completely appreciate that they are doing this but I really do have an issue with this or at least how they are pitching this. It comes across as trying to twist people's arms into supporting the campaign. I can understand doing a limited beta for backers at a milestone but that shouldn't stop them from releasing a gameplay video for people who are looking and trying to decide if they do want to support this project. Right now it sounds like they are sort of holding people at ransom basically saying "Oh you want to actually see how the game looks and plays? Well pay $30 and you can! Want to see something before that? Too bad its for people who pay only." It just sounds manipulative.


They don't seem to understand the difference between beta and gameplay footage, which is disconcerting, and yeah want people to pay for the beta to boot. I hate to harp on this because I hope it's just them being tone deaf to what people want to know when they sell a game, but again it keeps sounding like a money grab. It's very rare that you'd withhold a gameplay video, especially if you're 2/3 done with the first three chapters, and it only tends to happen if it's a sequel, where it's about the story and the play is the same as before, or if the game is shovelware so glitchy and bad you just want people to buy based on the name or associated property and get it out of your house.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Peanut » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:08 pm

mechana2015 wrote:Yeah I don't think they read the thread. You'd think they'd try to be more reassuring if they had, considering there's been concerns about the legitimacy of their project, not 'haha great thread'.

I think they at least glanced through the thread. Regardless, they weren't going to respond or act reassuring because in doing so they make it seem like they don't have any confidence in their product. Really, the best response is to get people into the beta so they can see the gameplay first hand. Any defense of their work is too easy to doubt because we don't actually have the gameplay footage or anything else to confirm what they are saying is right. In all I think your other comments are correct.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Davidizer13 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:29 pm

I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point - while I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling this a scam, it's obvious to me they don't know how to sell their game beyond using the fact that it's a game based on the Bible. This has given them unrealistic expectations about what they're going to do in this game, between believing they could have pledges enough to fund themselves 10 times over without any real gameplay footage, and calling it "the most important game ever made" in their last update. (Which isn't even true from a Christian standpoint, in which David's just part of the backstory for the real story about Jesus, though I suppose a Jesus game wouldn't be quite as exciting as fighting Philistines, and probably pretty tasteless...) They're absolutely sure that a few 3D models and some pretty concepts will make up for what they're trying to make us pay to see, instead of letting us see what they've got so far, like any other good Kickstarter out there. Kicktraq says they'll make their goal (but no stretch goals), so I suppose we'll get to see what they'll do in due time...
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby mechana2015 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:40 pm

Unless they spike up for at least one stretch goal I feel bad for the people that funded the 'full game' and are getting the same thing as the people that funded the first three only for ten bucks less.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Xeno » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:27 pm

I'm still fairly shaky on episodic game releases. The whole 10 or so episodes seem as if they could all be within one game, and not need to be separate "episodes" or mini games or whatever.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Davidizer13 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:11 pm

Stretch goals or not, $25 is a lot to pay for what looks like maybe 4-6 hours of gameplay, without much indication of replayability and certainly no multiplayer. Short isn't necessarily bad - I'm an arcade game fan, and most of those take less than an hour, but a good one will have plenty of secrets, options for playing through it, an interesting scoring system...something about it that encourages you to give it another try. This game looks very story-driven, and most likely, that story's going to be pretty linear, so once you've seen it, that's it.

Then again, their main (?) inspiration, Deadlight, had some of the same issues, though that's going for a little cheaper than this one, and it's got a couple tricks up its sleeve to get you to play it again, apparently.
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby mechana2015 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:37 pm

Deadlight's less than half the price of the so called full version, ten less than the 3 episode only version... which at the rater their going IS the full version. A little cheaper is an understatement.

Actually for those that are on the backer list, serious question I'd like to see them answer.

"25 dollar pledges get the first three episodes. 35 dollar pledges get the full game, so first three episodes and any stretch goal episodes in addition to the first three. At your current rate of backing, only the first three episodes will be funded. What do you have to say about people paying two radically differnt prices for the same exact game?"
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Re: Another Bible game Really?

Postby Nate » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:01 pm

I remember when episodic gaming was the future of video games.
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