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1 John 4:7-12 (NIV) wrote:Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
1 John 4:19-21 (NIV) wrote:We love because he first loved us. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.
Luke 14:25-27 (NIV) wrote:Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple."
PLCDreamcatcher14 wrote:Well, when you fall in love with somebody, you love everything about them, their smile, looks, heart, etc. You get to where you can't live without them.
Actually, I suspect that the kind of love that is properly within the love of God is a much more powerful and fulfilling love. Without God, our "love" becomes selfish and idolatrous. If you love a thing or a person with the kind of love where you're expecting it to make your life complete, where you're just sitting back and hoping that merely experiencing it will make you happy, well, you're never going to be satisfied. But the love that is God is not about taking and expecting. It's a giving and accepting sort of love. For instance, when you say you love your pet, you probably don't mean that you like feeling its soft fur and receiving its loyalty. You mean that you care for it and give it food and shelter and attention. You don't keep pets to make yourself happy, you keep them so you can make them happy. And that sort of love, paradoxically, is much more satisfying in the long run.
The idea that you need to get married to be complete is actually mostly prevalent in denominations (or ofshoots, if you don't feel comfortable classifying them as Christian) of Christianity that put emphasis on having lots of kids, such as the Quiverfull movement or Mormonism. There is a real fear (mostly rooted in racism) that the current generation's declining marriage rates spell doom for the country in one form or another. It would absolutely be safe to say that to these groups, marriage is a form of idol that they hold as more important than God...because obviously, it's perfectly possible, even suggested in the bible itself as preferable to be a single person fully devoted to serving Christ.
That is a very one dimensional view on what love is and how it works. I love pretty much my entire family, there are a couple exceptions but that's irrelevant to the topic, and I certainly don't love everything about any of them. Romantic relationships don't work in a fashion where you love everything about your partner, its more about having a strong enough connection on enough things to get passed th bits you don't like as much.
Just like with "not being complete until you're with a partner", its a load of hogwash, you shouldn't even be looking for a partner until you feel complete on your own.
PLCDreamcatcher14 wrote:So I once, not too long ago, heard somebody say that the modern day romanticizing of love leads people to believe we are all incomplete and that we need to fall in love and get married in order to be complete and how people striving for this are practicing false idol worship.
Some people might feel that way in the first stages of infatuation, maybe. But hopefully that would progress to a more realistic view of knowing that the other person is a human being who has faults and being willing to care for them anyways. Married love entails things like a commitment to the other person, willing what is good for the other person, and self-sacrifice. It is the giving sort of love that Midori was talking about.Well, when you fall in love with somebody, you love everything about them, their smile, looks, heart, etc.
PLCDreamcatcher14 wrote:You know, in more recent years, I've noticed how many people will fall in love with somebody and then want the other person to love them back and if not, they figure there's no point anymore and I always thought that that was kind of stupid. Like, shouldn't you fall in love with somebody and even though they may not feel the same for you or they do but you can't be together and though it may hurt, you could still be content just being their friend?
PLCDreamcatcher14 wrote:You know, in more recent years, I've noticed how many people will fall in love with somebody and then want the other person to love them back and if not, they figure there's no point anymore and I always thought that that was kind of stupid.
Like, shouldn't you fall in love with somebody and even though they may not feel the same for you or they do but you can't be together and though it may hurt, you could still be content just being their friend?
Yeah, that's true. But I think that even Christians in other denominations want their kids to get married and have kids because of the family unit. My mom says that she'd like it if I got married and had kids one day too, but in good time after I've worked on a career first. Our next door neighbors who are big Christians really want grand-kids even though most of their kids aren't willing anytime soon.
Kaori wrote:(BTW, Unlike the stereotype some people have, the Catholic Church does not teach that you should have as many children as possible but that you should responsibly plan your family.)
Kraavdran wrote:Dependency is a cynical use of another... while love is completely the opposite. . . But having a sense of dependency that is often summarized by "I just can't live without ________" is what I am trying to point out.
Nate wrote:Right, they are against birth control and non-procreative sex, but they have no issue with the "rhythm method" which can help prevent pregnancies.
PLCDreamcatcher14 wrote:I even started to feel guilty over listening to sweet love songs for fear that they're idolatrous.
Nate wrote:PLCDreamcatcher14 wrote:I even started to feel guilty over listening to sweet love songs for fear that they're idolatrous.
Just do what contemporary Christian music does and replace the words "baby" and "darling" in love songs with "Jesus" and bam, suddenly you're listening to a Christian song.
PLCDreamcatcher14 wrote:I just wanted to say that the whole reason I posted this to begin with was because I'm someone who feels guilty very easily. It's one of the reasons I've posted in Christian Growth Q&A so many times. I always want to make sure I'm doing the right thing, not necessarily to save myself, but because I...I want to make God proud. And I feel panicky whenever someone else has a different view then me and it makes me wonder if their right and I'm wrong. Then and only then, do I start to feel guilty. I'm somebody who also loves people and animals and nature and life and the world. I'll often watch other people and find myself adoring them, thinking that they're just so cute whether they're male or female, young or old, etc. And in some cases I've prayed for God to please bless them and I'll even thank him for having created such wonderful people and for having blessed me with their presence or their work or their companionship. So when I heard the whole love/idolatry thing, I got worried. I was afraid that I was loving other things more than God. That I was somehow betraying him. I even started to feel guilty over listening to sweet love songs for fear that they're idolatrous. So I started trying to, I guess restrain my love for other people and things so as not to let myself love others more than God but in the end, I felt further away from him and more resentful and bitter and more distant. I think I've kind of realized that I really don't have to worry too much. By loving other people, animals, nature, hobbies, things, etc. I become closer to God and more thankful to Him. Which I know is like, totally backwards from how we're supposed to be but I don't know. It works for me. And honestly, I like the romanticizing of various things. I'm a dreamier sort of person anyway and that's usually how I feel about a lot of things. Though I do wish that romance wasn't so highly valued because I've seen a lot of really awesome people who, for one reason or another, never got married or fell in love or anything and they seem happy.
Anirac wrote:PLCDreamcatcher14 wrote:I just wanted to say that the whole reason I posted this to begin with was because I'm someone who feels guilty very easily. It's one of the reasons I've posted in Christian Growth Q&A so many times. I always want to make sure I'm doing the right thing, not necessarily to save myself, but because I...I want to make God proud. And I feel panicky whenever someone else has a different view then me and it makes me wonder if their right and I'm wrong. Then and only then, do I start to feel guilty. I'm somebody who also loves people and animals and nature and life and the world. I'll often watch other people and find myself adoring them, thinking that they're just so cute whether they're male or female, young or old, etc. And in some cases I've prayed for God to please bless them and I'll even thank him for having created such wonderful people and for having blessed me with their presence or their work or their companionship. So when I heard the whole love/idolatry thing, I got worried. I was afraid that I was loving other things more than God. That I was somehow betraying him. I even started to feel guilty over listening to sweet love songs for fear that they're idolatrous. So I started trying to, I guess restrain my love for other people and things so as not to let myself love others more than God but in the end, I felt further away from him and more resentful and bitter and more distant. I think I've kind of realized that I really don't have to worry too much. By loving other people, animals, nature, hobbies, things, etc. I become closer to God and more thankful to Him. Which I know is like, totally backwards from how we're supposed to be but I don't know. It works for me. And honestly, I like the romanticizing of various things. I'm a dreamier sort of person anyway and that's usually how I feel about a lot of things. Though I do wish that romance wasn't so highly valued because I've seen a lot of really awesome people who, for one reason or another, never got married or fell in love or anything and they seem happy.
I find it funny that your own signature says "God expects spiritual fruit, not religious nuts" yet you yourself were going nuts over the matter of love. I'm glad people here helped you sort it out!
I think there is nothing wrong in showing admiration or interest for things, animals, or people, as long as you give credit to God. I see it as God telling me "Hey, look at this rose I made. Isn't it beautiful? Do you like it? Am I not Good?" and I thank Him for showing me such beauties. Then I research more about how things work and I'm amazed at their inner workings. If it's nature, I thank God for creating it, if it's machinery I thank God for the intellect he gave us to build that. By doing this, I'm constantly amazed and constantly worshipping God!
Mullet Death wrote:What is love?
Baby don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more
Xeno wrote:It's because for a long time there was concept that you had to hit certain life milestones by certain ages. If you didn't have a full time job by a certain age then you were lazy. If you didn't have a spouse by a certain age then you're a mess/gay. If you didn't have children by a certain age then you're selfish.
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